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OFF THE GRID

Seriously, Do You Know What Obama’s Birth Certificate Says? Have You Seen It?

Jul 23, 09 | 9:45 AM   byMichael Wolff
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I was on a train over the weekend, going to a perfectly respectable garden party in Connecticut, when a fellow guest, another writer—a liberal, I would have assumed—started in on this Obama birth certificate stuff. I think he wanted to say that this whole business was a bit of political insidiousness, but within a second he was debating its merits.

If there wasn’t something here, well, why wouldn’t Obama have just plain come out and denied it? You know?

Now, my suspicion was that this fellow had had a few drinks before getting on the train—which may be relevant.

Lou Dobbs, who has been propounding this theory, has often seemed drunk to me. Indeed, Jon Stewart made great fun of Dobbs last night, pointing out that Dobbs’ own network, CNN, had meticulously debunked all of the theoretical circumstances underlying the conspiracy. Curiously, conspiracies are not all that susceptible to ridicule.

In fact, Lou Dobbs seems to flourish precisely because of his often drunken-seeming insistence on circumstances and sets of facts that have little to do with reason and reality. Also, the measure of a good conspiracy is that it can stand up to—indeed it grows strong in the face of—facts that absolutely contradict its central assumptions. Again, this has something to do, I believe, with drunkenness.

Partly, such conspiracies persist and grow because they are always pretty boring and if you are not drunk you cannot talk about them with any interest or attention—and even if you could, drunk people don’t listen to you anyway.

Conspiracies are really one-way conversations. Talking about a conspiracy allows you to pretend you are a television or radio host or talking head.

Also, conspiracies, even while they are boring, are more interesting than, say, health care. Certainly, on the train to Connecticut, I preferred a discussion about the birther business to what they do or do not do about hospitalizations in Canada.

The birther conspiracy may be a sign of right-wing desperation. If you can’t rattle the president any other way, make some stuff up about him. There were always none-too-successful efforts by the left wing to imply that George Bush had fallen off the wagon.

Some conspiracy theories can become quite powerful—and perhaps have a marked political effect. A not insignificant portion of the country actually seemed to have believed for a few years that Vince Foster was killed because…I can’t remember why. But it was a very detailed case about dark doings at the highest levels that confirmed the deep distrust of the Clintons.

Conspiracies, good conspiracies, do that: They confirm what you already believe. They’re metaphors, really, rather than facts. The birther conspiracy clearly makes the self-evident point that Barack Obama isn’t a white American.

Also, it is the middle of summer, when conspiracies flourish best, because people are drinking more and because nothing else is going on—except that health care stuff.

More of Newser founder Michael Wolff's articles and commentary can be found at VanityFair.com, where he writes a regular column. He can be emailed at michael@newser.com.

42 comments
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IN RESPONSE:
kokuaguy
Jul 24, 09 3:14 AM CDT
It's about the controversy over flagging, essentially. The Comment Policy gives the newser editors arbitrary power to flag Corona_king for the same kind of "abusive" posting that many others get away with. I also do not understand why jemikoes is always the top point scorer on the site and NEVER posts any comments. I did not ask to be "hamed". I proposed an election so that a member of the newser community would become the volunteer ombudsperson, rather than some corporate employee. I think my qualifications are acceptable, so I "nominated" myself. Anyone here could do the same. I have a few ideas about an election would work, and I'm sure others would too. I'm hoping to hear form Mad about this by email. Mahalo for asking GeeJ.
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RogerMohajir
Jul 23, 09 11:06 AM CDT
Of course there is a legitimate Hawaiian birth certificate for Obama. Anyone who thinks that the aliens who planted Obama on earth as their Saturnian Candidate weren't smart enough to get him documented know nothing about the alien menace. The aliens are smarter than we are, so the very fact that there are no facts that demonstrate that Obama is an alien is your proof that he must be. Right, Lou? Reply
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kokuaguy
Jul 23, 09 3:02 PM CDT
Mr. Wolff, the newser web community needs an ombudsperson and I hereby nominate myself. I suggest that a web forum be created for discussion of quallifcations of others so nominated (and campaign platforms and speeches) and that the 20 top "thumbs up getters" be put on a slate for an online election. The victor would of course retire from further participation except in the capacity as offickal ombudsperson. Theere would be another election in one year, or upon earlier resignation fo the ombudsperson. Wiat, I think there should be a Vice-Ombudperson to serve out any unfinished term, and to assist with the Ombudsperson's duties upon request.
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deebles
Jul 24, 09 1:56 AM CDT
The metaphor is actually not aliens, though that fits. This is a metaphor for how stupid we have become about basic civics. That he was born in Hawaii is well, who cares? He coulda been born on the moon and still be a citizen cause his Mother was a citizen. You think that Jolie-Pitt kid born in Africa isn't an American citizen? What is happening to this country? My mother was French and gave birth in Missouri--don't ask. I have French Citizenship through her and American through place. His mother is from Kansas--end of fricking discussion.
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QueenAlli
Jul 23, 09 11:16 AM CDT
I loved Jon Stewart's The Born Indentity segment last night. LOL! Reply
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Just_The_Facts
Jul 23, 09 11:18 AM CDT
Calls for a long-form birth certificate for Barack Obama are based on laws in Hawaii that allow several non-traditional ways of acquiring birth certificates (other than being born in a hospital and having the hospital file the birth record). Birthers are concerned that the short form certificate doesn’t indicate information about the hospital and attending doctor etc… Perhaps a query to the Hawaiian Department of Health to ask the question “If a person’s original birth certificate was obtained via affidavit or through some method other than birth in a Hawaiian hospital, will that be evident on the short form COLB that is now issued by the Hawaiian Department of Health?” and if so, then ask them “How will this be evident on the short form?” If they say you cannot tell from the short form, then Obama’s short form cert can be reasonably questioned. If there is a way to tell then simply apply it to Obama’s and determine if it was acquired “non-traditionally”. That should end the whole affair. Reply
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Mad
Jul 23, 09 11:46 AM CDT
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. And after Obama produces THAT info, you birthers will find fault with it and demand even more 'proof'. It's a mistake to continue to feed the birthers paranoia. Here's an idea; Rather Obama prove his citizenship, again, why don't you birthers 'prove' he is not a citizen. "That should end the whole affair."
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IN RESPONSE:
MichaelWolff
Jul 23, 09 12:03 PM CDT
hey Just_the_Facts, do you have any idea what you sound like? Really? No, but you don't have any idea. This is why it's hard to have this conversation. There's a perceived rationality divide. One that is never to be bridged, I suppose.
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Reader3190
Jul 23, 09 2:15 PM CDT
Mad: Ever hear of the old line "you can't prove a negative"? Well, it applies to proving someone isn't a citizen. This is why there are calls for a national ID card--or its de facto substitute, Real ID.
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IN RESPONSE:
KittyKat
Jul 23, 09 4:37 PM CDT
Janice Okubo, spokeswoman for Hawaii's State Department of Health, says that they only issue "certifications" of live births, which is the "official birth certificate" issued by the state of Hawaii. The Health Department "DOES NOT HAVE A SHORT-FORM or LONG-FORM CERTIFICATE." (emphasis added) ====> http://www.starbulletin.com/features/20090606_kokua_line.html *~*~*~*~* From the Star Bulletin: "The birth certificate form has been modified over the years and decades to conform to national standards and models," she said. Okubo also emphasized the certification form "contains all the information needed by all federal government agencies for transactions requiring a birth certificate." She added that the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized the state's current certification of live birth "as an official birth certificate meeting all federal and other requirements." *~*~*~*~* Here's another statement from their state government website supporting that long-forms are no longer available: "Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth." That statement is found here, under "Primary Documents": ====> http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl *~*~*~*~* There's also more about the birth certificate issue here: ====> http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/01/worldnetdaily/birthers-claim-gibbs-lied-when-he-said-obamas-birt/ *~*~*~*~* Another Birther claim is that a birth certificate could have been applied for by ANY adult, and that one could easily have been granted for a baby born outside of the country. "In fact, only the legal parents of a child—in this case, Barack Obama Sr. and Stanley Ann Dunham—can apply for a birth certificate." ====> http://washingtonindependent.com/51652/some-more-clarity-on-hawaiian-birth-certificates?dsq=12827089#comment-12827089 *~*~*~*~* "As for the theory that Obama's original birth certificate might show he was foreign-born, Okubo said the "Certification of Live Birth" would say so. OBAMA'S DOES NOT. Again, it says HE WAS BORN IN HONOLULU." (emphasis added)
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IN RESPONSE:
dax
Jul 23, 09 8:05 PM CDT
Yes, but is that Honolulu, Hawaii or Honolulu, Kenya ?
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deebles
Jul 24, 09 2:58 AM CDT
just the facts is a name best reserved for the stuff you see with your eyeballs. You can't even buy into gravity, that's just a theory. Facts are in non-fiction books and vetted to be factual. You must read many or those and have many, many facts lying in your synaptic memory before just facts ever show a glimmer. As you are you are chock a block full of opinions with no factual basis and plugging them into the puzzle of your mind. Thank God for denial or you'd be waiting for the apple that falls up. Einstein wouldn't have chosen just the the acts as a username. Cause he knew there were few. I mean even his Nobel prize wasn't based on a fact.
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Doubtful
Jul 23, 09 11:36 AM CDT
“It’s crazy,” said Janice Okubo, director of communications for the Hawaii Department of Health. “I don’t think anything is ever going to satisfy them.” Okubo, who said that she gets weekly questions from Obama ‘Birthers’ that are “more like threats,” explained that the certificate of live birth reproduced by Obama’s campaign should have debunked the conspiracy theories. “If you were born in Bali, for example,” Okubo explained, “you could get a certificate from the state of Hawaii saying you were born in Bali. You could not get a certificate saying you were born in Honolulu. The state has to verify a fact like that for it to appear on the certificate. But it’s become very clear that it doesn’t matter what I say. The people who are questioning this bring up all these implausible scenarios. What if the physician lied? What if the state lied? It’s just become an urban legend at this point.” Reply
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Reader3190
Jul 23, 09 2:18 PM CDT
So sayeth the typical bureaucrat. "It is so because I say it's so." If Ms Okubo ever leaves her current position, there are a few (over)qualified people in my state who could replace her immediately and to the same effect.
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ButchEkstrom
Jul 23, 09 11:53 AM CDT
Let's stay focused on the important business of reform and renewal in this country. Put the 'birther' cretins/liars in their place in that manner. Reply
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polstroad
Jul 23, 09 11:55 AM CDT
old legal maxim: he who asserts must prove... ps: dump Dobbs and then you really will be doing the nation a favor. Reply
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BillinNYS
Jul 23, 09 12:10 PM CDT
I am suspicious because... an Order to deploy an officer to Iraq was rescinded the day after his refusal to deploy became national news. The officer's reason: Obama had not proved he was a lawful natural-born citizen of the U.S., and thus ineligible to be POTUS, making all orders issued during his term illegal. If this court-martial offense were to be persued in a military court, the long-form would also have to be entered into evidence.The fact that the order to deploy was rescinded means two things: The Lt.Col. will now retire without blemish, and the Obama administration has something to hide...or do you really think the Democratic Party would pass up a chance to destroy a right-wing birther kook if they could? Maybe they can't, because maybe they're not kooks, after all. Reply
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Snarfeh
Jul 23, 09 1:52 PM CDT
As another poster recently pointed out, I think Obama should produce his birth certificate when Bush produces his military service record. Reply
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IN RESPONSE:
deebles
Jul 24, 09 3:12 AM CDT
look what happened to Rather when he tried to do just that. Stupid of Rather to think that he should carbon test papers. But didn't Rove handle that in his true efficient way? He is as good as Dick Morris use to be for the Clinton's until his hooker-toe-sucking incident caused the Clinton's to fire him thus planting him in the forever Fox news chair which is constantly warmed by the flabby asses of the of the formerly discredited who've discovered that Fox pays the mortgage when all you are is a paid whore. Ironic that paying a whore made him a payable whore.
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Kingsman
Jul 23, 09 2:54 PM CDT
I've don some research into the Presidn'ts birth. In the first place, the COLB that was shown on site is not a Certifiicate of Live Birth, but a Certification of Live Birth. You may ask what's the difference? A birth certificate is verifying a live birth that is witnessed within the jurisdiction where this is issued. A certification on the other hand says that the original is not available to verify the details necessary to issue a certificate. All that anyone has asked for is a "vault copy" of the President's birth certificate. A "Vault Copy" is a photographically repoduced copy of the oiginal birth certificate including all details of the live birth auch as hospital where delivered, Doctor's Name, etc. He could have one of these for a very minimal charge. Fact Check, etc., apparently does not understand the difference. Just producing a ."vault copy" of the document would have saved The President over $800,000 in legal fees and put this whole thing to rest. Reply
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IN RESPONSE:
deebles
Jul 24, 09 3:16 AM CDT
You chose to negate a non-issue when you could have popped a bottle of Tattingers and made love.
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IN RESPONSE:
J.J.
Jul 24, 09 12:28 PM CDT
God, you are thick! Information on the "certification" had to be verified before it was issued. You're probably upset because a black man's in the White House but he's not serving dinner!
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Reader3181
Jul 23, 09 3:24 PM CDT
This is so true about drunks. Reply
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DontLikeYou
Jul 23, 09 4:03 PM CDT
Mr. Obama could end this issue by producing the original document of his birth. But he will not do so. Just ask yourself.... why? Reply
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IN RESPONSE:
MichaelWolff
Jul 23, 09 5:07 PM CDT
Even this language is peculiar, "the original document of his birth..." Makes you shiver. I guess it's supposed to make you shiver. I'm going to call my mother and ask for the original document of my birth.
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IN RESPONSE:
dax
Jul 23, 09 8:08 PM CDT
How many people born before, say, 1970 could produce the "original" document of birth? That is why certified copies are available.
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IN RESPONSE:
deebles
Jul 24, 09 3:19 AM CDT
I think that any document of your birth that doesn't include Faust is reasonable proof of anything.
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deebles
Jul 24, 09 3:46 AM CDT
Because the only decent reason to produce your birth certificate is Little League. And then to prove you're not an 11 year old trying to play with the nine-year olds. He doesn't show the obvious because then the dumb people focus on that and don't look at the interesting things about him that really matter. Personally a smart guy like him knows the theory of the artful dodge. Catch that ball and never think about what matters. Works on you. So he's sticking.
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JonmarkP
Jul 23, 09 5:23 PM CDT
I've asked many times to see evidence that Barbara Bush was born of human parents-not just a birth certificate, but any evidence at all. Does that fact that no one has ever produced this evidence for me prove that she's an alien? No, it does not. What proves she's an alien is her non-human behavior, and the non-human behavior of her spawn. Reply
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Reader68389796
Jul 23, 09 5:43 PM CDT
No, Wolfe I haven't seen it, but have you seen Cheney,s George, and Palin's. I could sure do with a copy. Reply
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kokuaguy
Jul 23, 09 6:03 PM CDT
This absurd "only in America" kerfluffle is entirely beneath the President of the United States who was elected in a time of great national and world peril to be a LEADER. I hope he never deigns to comment on this garbage, or permits anyone in his administration to address it seriously in any way, shape, or form --EVER !!! Possible exception: at next yoar's National Press Club Comedy Roast. Reply
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cmm
Jul 23, 09 6:03 PM CDT
I was born Hawaii the same year as Obama. My birth certificate looks exactly the same. I guess I'm Kenyan too...LOL Reply
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nellpost
Jul 23, 09 8:18 PM CDT
Chris Matthews had gordon libby on his show today and showed that birther to be... a doddering fame seeker, in my opinon. Reply
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IN RESPONSE:
deebles
Jul 24, 09 3:34 AM CDT
Yes Gordon Libby, the head of Nixon's plumbers. Such a twit that he destroyed the President he was willing to die for. But a few years in jail and now he's a spouter to the world who forgets everything.
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J.J.
Jul 24, 09 12:32 PM CDT
Then there's Liz Cheney joining the choir.
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kokuaguy
Jul 24, 09 3:16 AM CDT
For more background see my comment on Mr. Wolff's essay just prior to this about healthcare reform. Reply
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IN RESPONSE:
deebles
Jul 24, 09 4:04 AM CDT
Corona spammed an entire day's grid.
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AristotleTheHun
Jul 24, 09 11:49 PM CDT
Can you please show me where the LEGITIMATE Hawaiian birth certificate is? And if it has been produced, why has Obama spent money on attorney fees to keep it from being made public? Obama’s Presidential Eligibility: What You Need to Know Mostly facts and very little rhetoric, all properly cited. This is how research should be done. Now what will the Obot PSYOPS agents do? Let me Guess; ridicule, name calling, personal attacks and changing the subject. http://www.therightsideoflife.com/?p=6216 Somehow, you know its coming. That OMG moment is just around the corner. You can feel the inescapable reality creeping up on you. Something will leak. Someone will spill the beans. “For nothing is hid that shall not be made manifest, nor anything secret that shall not be known and come to light.” Luke 8:17 http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/04/aka-obama-fans-all-together-now-say-omg.html Reply
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Str8.Outta.Cambridge
Jul 25, 09 8:42 PM CDT
Too bad you don't link to any actual debunking. You mention a CNN debunking. But there's no link to anything but Stewart, who just cracks jokes. The birther's point is not that he was born in Kenya, but that he's illegal - he's not a citizen. And the "birth certificate" posted on the web is admitted by everyone (including the president) to be something that anyone could have applied for, and gotten without even showing up at at a hospital. So, there still is no birth certificate. I was excited when I started reading your column. I thought I was going to get links. But there were none. Just scorn . . which's sometimes deserved scorn for untruth, but only if backed up with evidence . .. .and sometimes is the last facade defense of the desperate. You also didn't mention that a federal judge has agreed to hear the case in California. Judges are supposed to throw out spurious cases. A guy with enough credibility to be appointed a lifetime federal judge decided it wasn't spurious. You didn't address that either. Which of course . . . just makes everyone suspicious, except the choir you're singing to among the liberals, who of course never bothered to look into this, or believed that Clinton was fucking interns until it was proved, etc etc etc. Reply
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Str8.Outta.Cambridge
Jul 25, 09 8:46 PM CDT
aristotle - right. No need to quote luke (I'm an atheist). But all right. In any case -0- you're totally right. There's no birth certificate. People should stop pretending there is. Even the Times didn't address the core point. (What do I mean "even the Times"? . . of course they covered up and lied for their homies. They're a propaganda sheet, somewhat less good as a journalistic source, and slightly more partisan than, the NY Post). Reply
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Str8.Outta.Cambridge
Jul 25, 09 9:02 PM CDT
ps, fascinating that you click on that supposed link to an account of his birth "the day after" and today? You get this message: Not Found Sorry, but you are looking for something that isn’t here." Gee, I've just spent 10 minutes examining the current defense case and it's full of wholes. Kittykat asks us to trust FactCheck (we won't even get into their partisan history) and all fact check offers is a "trust us, we've looked at it, you don't have to" and . . A CROPPED pic of supposed certificate (not full one). . . Plus, they both offer links to non existent articles, that apparently they both made up. Geez guys. You're right. Honestly? I hate everything Obama stands for. But I don't really care if he's a citizen. I mostly think the fight should be about other things. But if you guys can shut down the "birthers" you sure are only contributing to the suspicion of Obama's illegitimacy by aiding the cover up and NOT offering any information. Reply
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Spudsy
Jul 26, 09 9:44 PM CDT
Well, an American president messed up the country so bad for the last eight years that perhaps it is a good thing that this alien is in charge now. Reply
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