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SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 2009

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Palin Pulls in Big Bucks
—for Democrats

'Going Rogue' boosts Dem fundraising to new high

Nov 21, 09 6:50 AM CST
demagogue alert

Lawmaker Paints Target on Barack Obama's Back

Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert panders to dangerous paranoids

Nov 21, 09 9:08 AM CST
Billboard Links Obama to Jihad

Colo. car dealership wants this opinion heard

Nov 20, 09 8:42 PM CST
HE'S GOT A BOOK OUT, TOO

Beck to Unveil
'Big Plan' at
Saturday Rally

Righty pundit OK with destroying Dems and GOP

Nov 20, 09 8:07 PM CST
the big plan

Beck Will Host Conventions
to Educate America

He's shifting toward political organizer, plans big DC rally

Nov 21, 09 5:06 PM CST
Senate Democrats Clear
Health Care Hurdle, 60-39

Reid gets 60 votes to open full debate after Thanksgiving recess

Nov 21, 09 7:13 PM CST
Neglected Ind. Fans Boo Palin

Hecklers accuse her of 'quitting on the job'

Nov 20, 09 3:50 PM CST
Reid Gets 60th Vote:
Holdout Lincoln Agrees

She'll allow health care bill to move forward; vote at 8pm

Nov 21, 09 1:51 PM CST
Obama's Stimulus Finally
Gets Some Respect

Warring economists agree that it has helped—if not enough

Nov 21, 09 6:21 AM CST
Limbaugh's Wrong: Gallup's Obama Approval Below 50%

New survey is latest disappointment for President

Nov 20, 09 2:03 PM CST
showtime: 8pm

All Eyes on Blanche Lincoln in Cliffhanger Senate Vote

Mary Landrieu and Ben Nelson expected to back health reform in first vote

Nov 21, 09 7:24 AM CST
SURPRISE, SURPRISE

Sullivan Back; Still Hates Palin

Calls her book 'manifesto for the imagined life'

Nov 19, 09 8:49 PM CST
India Miffed By Obama's Bond With Beijing

Perceived slights complicate PM Singh's DC visit next week

Nov 20, 09 6:30 PM CST

|NEXT STORY »

Conservative Christians Fight Hate-Crimes Law for Gays

By Jess Kilby| Posted Jun 15, 09 8:19 PM CDT|

(Newser) – With Congress set to pass strengthened hate crime legislation this summer, Conservative Christian leaders are ratcheting up their opposition to a bill that would extend those protections to gays and lesbians, USA Today reports. Conservative leaders say they’re worried that clergy who preach against homosexuality could end up liable for inciting hate crimes, and have called for the repeal of all hate-crime laws as “extraneous and obsolete.”

But supporters of the Matthew Sheppard Act disagree with the argument, voiced by another conservative leader, that “all violent crime is hate crime" and should therefore be treated equally. "If you burn a cross on someone's lawn, or put a swastika on a synagogue, the intent is not just vandalism," counters a policy advocate with a gay rights group. "It's to send a message to intimidate the community."

[Images (2)]

[Quotes (1)]

Marchers carry a rainbow flag at the gay pride parade along Fifth Avenue in New York on Sunday, June 29, 2008. (AP Photo/Craig Ruttle)

Elizabeth Rivera, left, carries part of a rainbow flag during San Francisco's 38th annual gay pride parade on Sunday, June 29, 2008. (AP Photo/ Tony Avelar)

« Prev« Prev | Next »Next » Slideshow

Everyone is receiving equal protection under the law, regardless of race, religion, gender, homosexuality, favorite color or 'American Idol' pick.
- Matt Barber, director of cultural affairs with the conservative nonprofit Liberty Counsel

« Prev« Prev | Next »Next » Slideshow

11.20.09

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11.19.09

Sarah Palin Deserves Some More Attention

59 comments

VIEWING:

Fondue
Jun 15, 09 8:28 PM CDT

"Conservative leaders say they’re worried that clergy who preach against homosexuality could end up liable for inciting hate crimes...". Sounds like the clergy should change their rhetoric for an ever changing and Evolving world. However, if they want to be "not of this world" (Newt), then leave the rest of everyone else's lives alone and concern yourselves with your flock. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

flame821
Jun 15, 09 8:57 PM CDT

I agree. They've changed their interpretation of the Bible many, many times to make themselves more palatable to the masses. Maybe they should read that book of theirs and take note: homosexuals are admonished twice; heterosexuals are admonished over 30 times

IN RESPONSE:

Deebles
Jun 15, 09 9:06 PM CDT

As Lewis Black says, sorta, the Old Testament is a Jewish book and the New Testament is a Christian book. You can't go mixing up the table of contents to suit your needs.

IN RESPONSE:

DJM420
Jun 15, 09 11:56 PM CDT

well said, fundude

| 0 minutes ago

kokuaguy
Jun 15, 09 8:30 PM CDT

WWJD? Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Deebles
Jun 15, 09 8:55 PM CDT

Personally, in today's world, I don't think Jesus would get to do much. His donkey riding would offend Peta, his spreading the wealth with the loaves and fishes would offend the right and his failure to place Mary Magdalene as his equal would offend the left.

IN RESPONSE:

DJM420
Jun 15, 09 11:52 PM CDT

but he'd definitely toke up. laid back brotha-man he was

| 0 minutes ago

Deebles
Jun 15, 09 8:33 PM CDT

As a firm believer in doing unto others, I'm all over protecting the clergy when they don't. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

mayverisian
Jun 16, 09 2:45 AM CDT

That's an interesting way of putting it! I was raised Catholic, but when I was 14 going on 15, I realised there's so much more to life. You could say that now I'm Pagan or Heathen because I worship nature and Mother Earth; you could say that I'm a humanist because I believe that treating fellow humans (and all living beings) with respect and helping to make things better is more important than sitting in a building just praying for things to get better. I think that, if there is an afterlife (and I think there is), how we act and what we do in this life determines our fate there, not where we went to worship or who we prayed to. One of my favourite sayings/quotes comes from the first season of House MD: I find it more comforting to believe that this (life) isn't simply a test.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Jun 16, 09 9:38 AM CDT

maeve, I with you on that. I consider myself a deist mostly and have a high regard for Mother Earth.

| 0 minutes ago

mickey61988
Jun 15, 09 8:49 PM CDT

I think Conservative Christians are "extraneous and obsolete". Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Cat-Lover
Jun 15, 09 8:57 PM CDT

When I was growing up, we feared the Communist Criminal Conspiracy; it was a plan to make us all alike, all striving for the same end. Today, it is the Christians in what may be equated to a conspiracy in a plan to make us all alike, all striving for the same end. Years may pass and times may change, but a conspiracy is criminal when it involves making us all alike, all striving for the same end. Yesterday and today. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Deebles
Jun 15, 09 9:19 PM CDT

No conspiracy. A conspiracy requires at least two people with at least one being able to keep a secret. We are all safe. As Carlos Marcello said the only way three people can keep a secret, is if two of them are dead. Communism was an ill-advised attempt to separate man from his labor--his capital. And Christianity--a belief, not a political ideology, is merely a tonic to get people through what would otherwise be a fucking hard day.

-1

| 0 minutes ago

Doctor_Zaius
Jun 15, 09 9:20 PM CDT

Sorry, hate is not a Christian value. Those that preach it are not Christians and regardless of what they think, Jesus was a Liberal. Read the book. Reply

+11

IN RESPONSE:

Deebles
Jun 15, 09 9:29 PM CDT

Duh? Jesus was the first liberal-well, beside John the Baptist. His liberalism is undoubted. Read this shit with an open heart like Jesus desired and you see no hate, only the wonderful evolution of the questioning mind that he sacrificed everything to bestow.

IN RESPONSE:

paul123
Jun 15, 09 9:31 PM CDT

Jesus was liberal in the sense that we (christians) are to love everyone reguardless of race or creed. Those that hate in the name of christianity are not reading the book. It is the sin that we are to hate, not the sinner. Now, please, lets not debate what is and isn't a sin in this forum at least, as it is not the topic at hand. That said, hating sombody because they are gay is a sin, and those that hate are hypocrits.

IN RESPONSE:

DJM420
Jun 15, 09 11:55 PM CDT

the dr is in

| 0 minutes ago

OWLWOMANXXXX
Jun 15, 09 9:21 PM CDT

even though I do not understand how one could be a homosexual..I do... believe they have their rights...just as I have mine.....these preachers who try to interpret God to suit their own needs are not doing anyone any justice...including God...In the first place Jesus preached something about the physician healing his own back yard...did'nt He? Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Deebles
Jun 15, 09 9:38 PM CDT

Every human zygote begins as female. After a few weeks of fetal development the hormones come into play and if that zygote contains two X',s it will remain female. If it contains an XY, it will become male. Therefore, according to nature it is more difficult to make a male--more things can go wrong. Not to say that homosexuality is wrong, but the fact that most homosexuals are second or beyond births leads most scientists to believe that the mother produces....fuck it. Why bother?

IN RESPONSE:

kokuaguy
Jun 15, 09 10:45 PM CDT

deeb, I don't know why you bother, either-- but I'm happy as hell that you do !!!

IN RESPONSE:

DJM420
Jun 15, 09 11:58 PM CDT

i agree, deebles is on fire

IN RESPONSE:

Rob
Jun 16, 09 10:35 AM CDT

There are clear evolutionary advantages to have homosexuals in your family. It is wide spread in the animal world, as well. It is dangerous to look to nature for moral valuing, but the fact that it exists across the board is undeniable. And fitness in many animals shows benefits from having homosexual "helpers at the nest" in their family units.

IN RESPONSE:

ultramarine13
Jun 18, 09 2:40 AM CDT

Please continue deebles. I wasn't aware of this aspect of it, and would be grateful if you shared more.

| 0 minutes ago

EddyTeach
Jun 15, 09 9:35 PM CDT

Fun fact: there are more verses in the Bible decrying the mixture of two different types of fabric in one cloth than verses decrying homosexual behavior. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

doingtherightthing
Jun 15, 09 9:43 PM CDT

Rom 1:26-32 this will give you people insight to God's feelings about the gays! Those who take time to read will learn something. The rest will get there's in the end............. Reply

-2

IN RESPONSE:

DJM420
Jun 16, 09 12:00 AM CDT

is that some sort of play on words? "get theirs in the end"?

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Jun 16, 09 9:42 AM CDT

"the gays"

IN RESPONSE:

DJM420
Jun 16, 09 9:45 AM CDT

what does god say about 'the right-wing dickheads'?

| 0 minutes ago

Adapt-Overcome
Jun 15, 09 9:43 PM CDT

Leave it to the conservatives who preach the bible to be afraid of being held accountable for their illegal deeds of spreading fear mongering and hate. Don't you just love those "Christian--god fearing people". They are the biggest hypocrits of all. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

paul123
Jun 15, 09 10:07 PM CDT

that's poor perception though. Any church or pastor I've ever heard doesn't preach hatred. The only one that I've ever know of is that dumb westboro baptist church. they are the exception, not the norm.

| 0 minutes ago

aether
Jun 15, 09 10:09 PM CDT

I was hoping to open this comment board for some interesting discussion. I don't know why I didn't expect the religion bashing that I found. Reply

-1

IN RESPONSE:

DJM420
Jun 16, 09 12:03 AM CDT

seems more like open-minded logic mixed with a little critical thought than religion bashing...

| 0 minutes ago

kokuaguy
Jun 15, 09 10:53 PM CDT

I thought the discussion was as interesting as it gets here on newser. I see no more religion bashing than usual-- only a small minority are actually abusive. Why don't you offer some specific thoughts rather than a simple minded blanket condemnation? If all you're looking for a reinforcement of your beliefs you are definitely in the wrong place !!! Reply

| 0 minutes ago

doingtherightthing
Jun 15, 09 11:42 PM CDT

I love the comments without reading what God says about gays. Those who decided to respond have no clue what God wants or says. I said read what God thinks about gays..........you bible scholars have no clue what God wants or thinks........I'd check it out first Rom 1:26-32 before you open your mouths again........Its not what I say but what God says Himself....... Reply

-3

IN RESPONSE:

Mad
Jun 16, 09 1:06 AM CDT

More warnings from God: Leviticus 11:9-12 and Leviticus 11:9-12 --- "again, its not what I say but what God says Himself......." [Hint: God hates shrimp]

IN RESPONSE:

Mad
Jun 16, 09 1:08 AM CDT

opps- Leviticus 11:9-12 and Deuteronomy 14:9-10

IN RESPONSE:

Robert_Dada
Jun 16, 09 7:18 AM CDT

The problem being, of course, that there is no god in the first place.

IN RESPONSE:

DJM420
Jun 16, 09 9:36 AM CDT

thats not a problem robert...i had an imaginary friend once, then i realized i'd just made that shit up

| 0 minutes ago

TerrifiedCitizen
Jun 15, 09 11:54 PM CDT

Why deebles; that's an eloquent description of the overall hypocrisy we see around us. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

TerrifiedCitizen
Jun 16, 09 12:00 AM CDT

And rightthing can actually read; this commentary is getting more refreshing each time I visit it. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

doingtherightthing
Jun 16, 09 7:51 AM CDT

Dada your the first atheist to respond. The rest believe in God. They just don't want to be held accountable for being wrong about God and gays. They are angry and confused. You on the other hand, believe in nothing but yourself. You fit nowhere in this conversation or do you have anything to offer whether good or bad. So, crawl back from whence you came you slug.......... Reply

-6

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Jun 16, 09 9:48 AM CDT

@rightthing, I bet you can't wait for a christian theocracy. Too bad the Constitution won't allow it huh? And for the record I don't believe in the Biblical god.

IN RESPONSE:

MarkFL
Jun 16, 09 9:25 PM CDT

You are so misinformed about atheists. I am an atheist and I am not angry or confused at all. There is no God. That doesn't mean I believe in nothing but myself. It just means that I don't believe in the supernatural. Resurrection, prayer, inspired scripture, creation, heaven and hell, miracles, and revelation are all totally falsifiable and completely ridiculous if you believe them. These supernatural claims are totally unrelated to ethical behavior or community. They are simply myths and superstitions. Atheists are sensible, calm, compassionate and reasonable. We just don't believe in the supernatural. You can have your space wizard but please don't try to characterize atheists as angry slugs. In fact, the likelihood of me transforming right now into an actual angry slug is greater than the likelihood that God exists. Please abandon your bronze age mythology and enter the modern world.

| 0 minutes ago

Cat-Lover
Jun 16, 09 8:18 AM CDT

Conservatives tried to make Rev. Wright's comments "incendiary," and tried to use them to show how anti-American [then] Senator Obama was. They seem to use hate as their weapon, but when others claim the use of hate is evil, conservatives don't agree. They seek refuge in the bible, but nowhere is hate espoused. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Rob
Jun 16, 09 10:39 AM CDT

Who doesn't do that?

| 0 minutes ago

Observer
Jun 16, 09 8:21 AM CDT

Some Fundamentalist Christians are the most bigoted, intolerant people I know. They are hypocrites that pretend to follow Biblical scripture but don't. I hate hypocrites of any stripe. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

DJM420
Jun 16, 09 9:42 AM CDT

as observed a couple of posts above

IN RESPONSE:

Rob
Jun 16, 09 10:39 AM CDT

And some are pius and follow the spirit of their Book. The world has all kinds of all kinds. Ain't it beautiful?

| 0 minutes ago

Silverbow7
Jun 16, 09 8:56 AM CDT

Its not just Fundamentalist Christians. Its pretty much all religions. Jesus said we are gods so theirs your gods. Look to yourselves. Its about who you are. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

sache
Jun 16, 09 11:10 AM CDT

These people call themselves Christian. Fighting a hate crime law doesn't sound remotely Christian to me. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

doingtherightthing
Jun 16, 09 11:15 AM CDT

Go ahead and read Rom 1:26-32 can't handle the truth? Instead you people rant and rave about nothing. Until you read the chapter and verse, there is nothing you can comment about. What God thinks about gays read it and learn something....... Reply

-2

IN RESPONSE:

DJM420
Jun 16, 09 11:32 AM CDT

just because its in a book, doesnt mean its true.

IN RESPONSE:

MarkFL
Jun 16, 09 9:29 PM CDT

Please stop quoting the Bible as though God said it. There is no god and the Bible was written by people. It is full of errors and gibberish and it is simply not worth the dedication of your life and the sacrifice of your intellect.

| 0 minutes ago

kirei_gaisuto
Jun 16, 09 11:30 AM CDT

I hate to come in on the conservative side of the debate here, but I can kind of understand where they're coming from on the whole getting in trouble about preaching thing. As someone else said, most preachers don't preach hatred against the gays. They just say that it's wrong. Now you can disagree with it (as I do), but it doesn't matter because it's their right to believe it. But if saying homosexuality is wrong becomes a hate crime, they'll get in trouble for preaching about their beliefs. That's a violation of freedom of speech and freedom of religion. I mean, the KKK has meetings still. Do you think they're hugging and having cookies? But it's still perfectly legal for them to meet and spread their hate, as it should be. So if they do this, I think they need to specify what constitutes as a hate crime so that people's freedom of speech doesn't get hindered. And also, aren't all violent crimes considered hate crimes? Why do we need a separate category? Doesn't that just reinforce the idea that certain people are different and need different treatment? I'm just saying..... Reply

IN RESPONSE:

ack
Jun 16, 09 11:48 AM CDT

You have a good point, Kirei, but for one thing. It's not as if anyone has said that preaching homosexuality is wrong will break the law or even cause trouble. These conservatives are putting up a straw man for exactly the reasons you outlined. Of course freedom of expression will trump this law -- unless that expression crosses the line into actual incitement. In other words, no one has even suggested that these preachers would be breaking the law!

IN RESPONSE:

MarkFL
Jun 16, 09 9:31 PM CDT

ack, you are reading my mind.

| 0 minutes ago

ditchdigger
Jun 16, 09 11:58 AM CDT

this is an issue that takes time. many of the straight americans are wwrestling with this issue. it is not a political issue. it is a moral issue. the gay community wants tolerance. they show very little in return. like the feminist movement of the 70's. much of this is due to their spokesman. many of the people that speak for the gay community are offensive. they are not interested in the issue morally. they want the government to do their bidding. i have no problem with gay couples. living together in a monogomous life with eachother. what they do behind closed doors is their business. i grew up in a family with 9 other brothers,and sisters. my grandparents came from ireland in the early 1900's,because of intolerance. we were taught as children to not judge people on race,creed,or different lifestyles. my god father. is 70 years old. he is gay,and a great guy. i am 55,and always happy to see him,and his partner is a very accomplished man. they never try to sway us . with political talk,or try to get us to see how the organization act up,or perez hilton. are the spokesman for their chosen lifestyle. they see them as a detrement. ill- mannered people that got what they want. by being obnoxious. it is a moral issue. it is going to take time,and tolerance. Reply

-1

IN RESPONSE:

MarkFL
Jun 16, 09 9:39 PM CDT

Give one example of a gay leader that is offensive. Name one women's movement leader that is offensive. Perez Hilton is not a leader of the gay movement. The gay movement is a civil rights movement and not a movement to make people gay. I appreciate your calm words but you are so incorrect. Political talk, organized action, or coming out as gay is not intolerant. Why should people be tolerant of intolerance? You are a poor torture straight person who just needs some time to think it over before you decide to give respect and civil liberties to your fellow Americans. Please tell me what takes time? I don't get it. Pardon me for "political talk"ing.

| 0 minutes ago

Joann67
Aug 31, 09 7:57 PM CDT

Just because someone opposes homosexuality, it doesn't give anyone the right to hate gays and lesbians or to deny gays and lesbians their right to be protected under the law. I hope this bill is passed into law, because under God, everyone is created equal. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

View all 59 comments »

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