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SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 2009

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the big plan

Beck Will Host Conventions
to Educate America

He's shifting toward political organizer, plans big DC rally

Nov 21, 09 5:06 PM CST
Palin Pulls in Big Bucks
—for Democrats

'Going Rogue' boosts Dem fundraising to new high

Nov 21, 09 6:50 AM CST
Senate Democrats Clear
Health Care Hurdle, 60-39

Reid gets 60 votes to open full debate after Thanksgiving recess

Nov 21, 09 7:13 PM CST
demagogue alert

Lawmaker Paints Target on Barack Obama's Back

Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert panders to dangerous paranoids

Nov 21, 09 9:08 AM CST
Reid Gets 60th Vote:
Holdout Lincoln Agrees

She'll allow health care bill to move forward; vote at 8pm

Nov 21, 09 1:51 PM CST
HE'S GOT A BOOK OUT, TOO

Beck to Unveil
'Big Plan' at
Saturday Rally

Righty pundit OK with destroying Dems and GOP

Nov 20, 09 8:07 PM CST
Billboard Links Obama to Jihad

Colo. car dealership wants this opinion heard

Nov 20, 09 8:42 PM CST
Neglected Ind. Fans Boo Palin

Hecklers accuse her of 'quitting on the job'

Nov 20, 09 3:50 PM CST
Limbaugh's Wrong: Gallup's Obama Approval Below 50%

New survey is latest disappointment for President

Nov 20, 09 2:03 PM CST
Matt Taibbi

Palin: Our First WWE Politician

Pick an asshole, any asshole, and she'll rock the house

1 hour, 21 minutes ago
Obama's Stimulus Finally
Gets Some Respect

Warring economists agree that it has helped—if not enough

Nov 21, 09 6:21 AM CST
NO COMMUNION FOR YOU, MY SON

RI Bish Disses
Pro-Choice
Rep. Kennedy

Spat over Patrick's abortion stance escalates

3 hours, 43 minutes ago
SURPRISE, SURPRISE

Sullivan Back; Still Hates Palin

Calls her book 'manifesto for the imagined life'

Nov 19, 09 8:49 PM CST

|NEXT STORY »

Docs: We'll Quit If Obama Lifts Bush Abortion Rules

Analysts: older regs let health workers avoid certain procedures

By Matt Cantor| Posted Jul 6, 09 12:28 PM CDT|

(Newser) – Some doctors who oppose abortion say they’ll quit their jobs if President Obama repeals Bush regulations that allow health care professionals to refuse to perform operations that are in opposition with their beliefs, NPR reports. A Christian Medical Association report found that “90% of those surveyed said they will quit their practices before violating their conscience.” A repeal “sends a clear message: It's open season on health care professionals of conscience—discriminate at will.”

But some experts cite other, longstanding rules that protect those who don’t want to carry out certain operations. “Conscience clauses are on the books in almost every state,” says a bioethics analyst, who feels that the Bush rules are too vague. “Words like belief, when you talk about them in the context of health care, aren't just anything you might think of. They have to be defensible. And a false belief about science or the promotion of ambiguity where things can be disambiguated is not ethical."

President Barack Obama meets with Senate Democrats to discuss health care, Tuesday, June 2, 2009. (AP Photo/Haraz N. Ghanbari)

President Barack Obama speaks about health care during a town hall meeting at the Northern Virginia Community College in Annandale, Va., Wednesday, July 1, 2009. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)

Former President George W. Bush addresses a Fourth of July crowd at the Let Freedom Ring 2009 festival at Crystal Beach Park Arena in Woodward, Okla., Saturday, July 4, 2009. (AP Photo)

« Prev« Prev | Next »Next » Slideshow

11.20.09

The Health-Care Wars Have Just Begun

11.19.09

Sarah Palin Deserves Some More Attention

58 comments

VIEWING:

Thinker
Jul 6, 09 12:31 PM CDT

This is EXACTLY why I seek out atheist doctors. I want them to put MY health needs first, before their beliefs. If a doctor can't do right by his patient due to religious beliefs, he should not be a doctor. Reply

+13

IN RESPONSE:

2-bits
Jul 6, 09 2:09 PM CDT

How do you "seek out" a doctor of a particular religion (or no religion)?

IN RESPONSE:

Joyjoyjoy
Jul 6, 09 9:49 PM CDT

Atheist doctors have refused other stuff, every doctor has their level of comfort. I appreciate a doctor with ethics and integrity even if I disagree with their particular issue

| 0 minutes ago

polstroad
Jul 6, 09 12:38 PM CDT

good. let them go. First do no harm. Then make sure there is medical coverage for your vacation home.Pick and choose. Some way to practise. There are many many others who will fill your shoes, so go forth and sin no more. Reply

+14

| 0 minutes ago

ack
Jul 6, 09 12:42 PM CDT

The doctors are right. No one should be telling them what procedures they must perform. I'm vehemently pro-choice, but these guys are right to be ticked off. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Reader64481089
Jul 6, 09 12:48 PM CDT

Exactly the point, when did this country become a Dictatorship where a person HAD to do a thing they feel morally wrong. It isn't about abortion it is about the Doctors freedom to choose just as other Doctors open clinics to provide nothing but abortion. Granted if they select NOT to perform abortion then they also should be subject to some funding to their hospital or clinic aimed toward Birth Control not be paid but other funding untouched by Birth Control should still flow. Simple and no politics involved. It is the RIGHT of these select Doctors to CHOOSE as it is suppose to be the persons right to choose to find a Doctor who will perform such operations.

IN RESPONSE:

myvoice
Jul 6, 09 12:49 PM CDT

so what if a doctor was a Jehovah's witness... and lets say working in the ER.... and you need a blood transfusion.... should that DR have the choice of saving your life or he beliefs? Now this is a tad over the tip scenario but you do you get he point? No DR should be a DR if they're are blinded by faith not willing to put that aside for well being of the patient. To me this not even a debate. If these DR choose their beliefs over medicine... Good riddance!

IN RESPONSE:

emptycalm
Jul 6, 09 5:43 PM CDT

A patients health should be number one over their unfounded religious beliefs. I say let them go.

IN RESPONSE:

Adapt-Overcome
Jul 6, 09 7:40 PM CDT

Then let them take on a job as a vet. They'd still be practicing and they wouldn't have to be hypocrits. Oh, I forgot, they already are. They don't complain about what they do when they are sucking medicare dry and using the money to buy luxurious homes and vehicles and vacation spots.

IN RESPONSE:

JaneMP
Jul 6, 09 9:52 PM CDT

Did you not read the article taht there are laws that protect those who don't want to carry out porcedures?

IN RESPONSE:

NewserScooter
Jul 6, 09 11:31 PM CDT

Morals are not necessary religious. One can purely oppose abortion because you know its a human life. You don't have to invoke a religion, deity or any other belief.

IN RESPONSE:

bewilderbeast
Jul 7, 09 7:25 AM CDT

No, ack. Not true. As a doctor you have to be ethical. Ethical, not religious. Your religion is separate to your practice - or should be. You should be able to treat ethically a person of different persuasions and beliefs to your own. You mostly have the right not to do certain procedures (and it would be hard to force you to perform abortions except where you have to for medical reasons - say to save your patient's life in an emergency) but whatever you do has to be medically defensible and in the patient's best interests (and if that offends your pastor, it's no business of his). Doctors know this, so these doctors are making a political point, not a medically defensible stand.

| 0 minutes ago

Reader64481089
Jul 6, 09 12:59 PM CDT

myvoice, why do you REQUIRE more from a Doctor than you are willing to provide yourself? That is indeed hypocritical. A Jehovah's Witness would not be placed in such a predicament as ALL hospitals screen the Doctors they indeed place in the ER or in Surgery and if their Religion gets in the way of the medicine they simply do not last .... these Doctors deserve the same treatment as you as an American Citizen are glowed and it should not be shoved down their throat. There are plenty of Doctors that only care about the $$ you can have provide an abortion for you Reply

IN RESPONSE:

myvoice
Jul 6, 09 1:49 PM CDT

Reader... this was just an example of letting DR choose their beliefs... And yes i do require more from DR than myself. Its called the hypocritical oath and this is what they swear to... I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant: I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow. I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism. Key word nihilism is the philosophical doctrine suggesting that values do not exist but rather are falsely invented... so yes DR do need to keep their beliefs to themselves!

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Rob
Jul 6, 09 5:22 PM CDT

myvoice did NOT just say "hypocritical oath" all high and mighty did he? Good god. It's called the Hippocratic Oath written by Hippocrates. This is why there are people that simply should not be encouraged to vote when they walk around smug with this level of ignorance.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

UrUndertaker
Jul 6, 09 1:05 PM CDT

aclepd.com, don't go away mad just go the fck away with your spam

IN RESPONSE:

Snarfeh
Jul 7, 09 1:44 AM CDT

Undertaker, I put the same challenge to you that I put to greg...find Robert's comment above at his website & post the link. If he is posting exactly what is at his website as his comments, i.e., cutting & pasting, I'll drop this. But he's not. He's making comments just like everyone else, regardless of the coherence factor. Just because he signs off with his website address, a common practice, does not mean his comments are spam. The people at this site who think they are the FATS (Final Arbiter of Taste & Style) of who can comment & who can't are acting like whiny-ass republicans. I am tired of seeing comment space wasted on busting the man's chops for exercising the same right everyone else has, which is to post comments. Prove it's spam or shut up.

| 0 minutes ago

J-to-the-D
Jul 6, 09 1:07 PM CDT

ack, there are already many rules in place to keep doctors from doing things they don't want to do. for instance, nobody forced them to get a medical degree and take an oath to help their patients...how pro-choice are u that you would side with these doctors??? Reply

IN RESPONSE:

godawgs
Jul 6, 09 1:32 PM CDT

It is pro-choice, if the woman decides to have an abortion there are plenty of places for her to go. It should also be the choice of a DR not to perform one. How is that being any more for against abortion. The dr's should have a choice as well.

IN RESPONSE:

Rob
Jul 6, 09 5:24 PM CDT

So pro-choice only applies to one side of the equation? What is the doctor is a woman who chooses not to do abortions? There is nothing wrong with these doctors not wishing to do this procedure. If you want an abortion find a doctor that does them. Is that hard or is this just that you want your way when you want your way and everyone else has to tow your line?

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Jul 6, 09 6:18 PM CDT

Someone better tell my podiatrist that he is going to be forced to perform abortions soon. Give me a break. This is all Right to Life clap-trap designed to twist the choice argument to their benefit.

| 0 minutes ago

LiberalJesus
Jul 6, 09 1:11 PM CDT

So before Bush pushed through in the dead of night an anti abortion provision these doctors were not practicing medicine? Really....really....! Go Quit! No doctor ever has to do anything they think is unethical. Its just another reason for hard core conservatives to squeeze the access to abortion clinics but in a piecemeal kind of way. I say go ahead and quit. I'm sure there are just as many high paying jobs in the blue collar or white collar sector. Hey. I hear McDonalds needs night shift managers....yea and they pay 150-200,000 a year....I say quit! After all this is America and you are free to quit any job you please....just ask Sarah Palin about quitting! Reply

+10

IN RESPONSE:

NewserScooter
Jul 6, 09 11:33 PM CDT

Fool, the US is already quite underserved. Docs are leaving this country, and FMG are not coming in the way they used too in most states. Once Obama care comes there will be a lot less!

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Snarfeh
Jul 7, 09 1:49 AM CDT

And don't let your stethoscopes hit you in the nose on your way out! I consider it immoral for a doctor to refuse to treat someone due to the doctor's personal beliefs.

IN RESPONSE:

IndependentThinker
Jul 7, 09 10:51 AM CDT

@NewserScooter: Where do they go? Do you really think that Dr. spend outrageous amounts of money on school in the US then leave the country where they get payed more than anywhere else? With a health care system that will pay them NOT to work.

| 0 minutes ago

Reader65069154
Jul 6, 09 1:17 PM CDT

Realistically, the country is almost 50/50 split on this, so it doesn't seem like it would be hard to find a doctor who would perform the procedure. Why un-legislate this? Reply

-5

IN RESPONSE:

Toon
Jul 6, 09 4:49 PM CDT

It was never legislated in the first place. Congress legislates things. This was one of Bush's last minute changes so why are these doctors up in arms about a rule that has been in place for six months. Not one of these doctors decided to take up this profession in the last six months but if a return to the way things have always been bothers them then may be it is time for them to quit. Let's hope they enjoy their retirement/new career.

IN RESPONSE:

anchower
Jul 6, 09 5:05 PM CDT

Abortion providers are actually few and far between. Wyoming, for instance, doesn't have a single one. And South Carolina and Mississippi have one each. All the ones in Georgia are in Atlanta. In any case, no one can actually force a doctor (as opposed to a Florida tomato-picker) to do anything.

| 0 minutes ago

Fondue
Jul 6, 09 1:18 PM CDT

Anyone here get pissed off about the Muslim taxi drivers in MN that refused to pick up people carrying alcohol? -- Anyway, yeah I don't want my doc taking time out to think, "WWJD?" Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Rob
Jul 6, 09 5:26 PM CDT

I hadn't heard about these drivers. What a crock.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Jul 6, 09 6:20 PM CDT

So pro-choice only applies to Doctors and people who want abortions???

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Jul 6, 09 6:23 PM CDT

BUT NO CHOICE FOR CAB DRIVERS!!!! The outrage.

| 0 minutes ago

Amber
Jul 6, 09 2:27 PM CDT

@ myvoice, you are once again wrong or misguided. The key word to the entire oat in which you quote is "SICK", over 90% of abortions are not causing life threatening problems, they are simply a way that many get rid of what to them is an unwanted burden at a certain oint in life. Doctors are not and should not be REQUIRED to perform abortions as there are more than enough butcher shops, err I mean abortion clinics to do that deed you seem to love so damn much, and just think, if your Mom had felt the way you do I would not be wasting my time attempting to show you how wrong your view actually is. Oh well, even that is not good enough an argument for my to agree with anabortion Reply

-7

IN RESPONSE:

myvoice
Jul 6, 09 2:49 PM CDT

Amber... if the law says that abortions are legal, which they are, then the Dr's oath is to up hold the law. Im not arguing if abortion should be legal, but arguing if Dr's should be held to a higher standard than everyone else. Now i think that we should hold Dr's to a higher standard. How else can i trust or ensure my own safety? Now as for abortions I do not think any Dr feels it should be used as birth control. Nor do I. But for a Dr to feel he is above any law or seeks his "higher wisdom" from a higher power is indeed dangerous to you,I, or a woman who CHOOSES an abortion.

IN RESPONSE:

Toon
Jul 6, 09 5:13 PM CDT

Yea what if my mother had aborted me? Perhaps my siblings would have gone hungry less often and perhaps the violence level would have been lower because her stress level would have been lower if she had only as many kids as she could feed. 'Pro-life' people get all moral over the Old Test. command to pay a fine over actions that cause unwanted miscarriages while ignoring Old and New Test. commands to care for the poor or the very clear Gen. 2:7 verse that says life begins at first breathe. Hate abortion? Then chose politicians who will work to eliminate the poverty that causes abortion. In the mean time grow a heart.

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Jul 6, 09 6:22 PM CDT

How many abortions has your ophthalmologist been forced to perform lately?

| 0 minutes ago

Reader64481089
Jul 6, 09 2:32 PM CDT

Well personally IF I knew a Doctor has a point of view where he/she thought a procedure was morally wrong and I needed that procedure I would NOT want my life in that persons hands, I would rather find someone who doesn't hold a grudge against a procedure before I allow them to perform that procedure on me or my family. People wake up all the time after a surgery to find a Doctor has removed the wrong leg as it is, I don't want one who already has a chip on their shoulder putting a hand on me or mine just because Big Brother says they must. Screw that... Reply

| 0 minutes ago

foodchain11
Jul 6, 09 3:14 PM CDT

This is such a non starter: just say at the onset that you don't do abortions (elective surgery). Then take the patients comfortable with that. If it is life threatening, they have to provide the best medical treatment possible. Reply

-3

IN RESPONSE:

Amber
Jul 6, 09 3:45 PM CDT

"If it is life threatening" isn't mentioned in the law nor the article but is put forth that it is an ELECTIVE treatment ergo the Doctor SHOULD be able to have that choice. As another Reader so aptly phrased it, I do NOT want someone hacking on me because some bureaucrat says he must, you might wind up with a few sponges conveniently forgotten inside you while that Doctor has retired and moved far away to a sandy beach somewhere. I only want a competent Doctor who is doing what they feel they are meant to do operating on me, not someone who might be resentful they are being forced to do a task and not do it correctly effetely leaving people sterile with the flick of a scalpel. IF it were indeed life threatening any Doctor would elect to save the patient, that is the oath. As to an ELECTIVE surgery of any type which 99% of abortions are THEN it should be the Doctors choice.

IN RESPONSE:

IndependentThinker
Jul 7, 09 10:38 AM CDT

Where do you get your numbers Amber?

| 0 minutes ago

anchower
Jul 6, 09 4:57 PM CDT

Since when can anyone force a doctor to provide an abortion? Fuck these quacks. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Bryanw55
Jul 6, 09 6:08 PM CDT

As mentioned above, the law that would be repealed is less that six months old and states give doctors the right to refuse to do something against their conscience. This is right up there with the "Obama wants to take all our guns" crap. Pay attention.

IN RESPONSE:

Deebles
Jul 6, 09 10:08 PM CDT

Anch, the mind of reason.

IN RESPONSE:

NewserScooter
Jul 6, 09 11:35 PM CDT

But Obama and the Dems do want to take your guns!?!

-1

| 0 minutes ago

MarkFL
Jul 6, 09 7:01 PM CDT

Yes, anchower. I am confused. Are these doctors working in an emergency room? How is it possible that a doctor who doesn't want to perform an abortion would be forced to do it? I can't think of the scenario where this would happen. OB/GYNs with pregnancy complications? Clinic doctors who are posing as abortion providers? Who are these people? Reply

| 0 minutes ago

NotEvsie
Jul 6, 09 7:05 PM CDT

Is there a sudden shortage of doctors unwilling to perform abortions that I'm not aware of? Reply

| 0 minutes ago

OWLWOMANXXXX
Jul 6, 09 7:13 PM CDT

if it is against their beliefs then they should recomend someone who will Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Reader64481089
Jul 6, 09 7:44 PM CDT

And around here they do, hell there are clinics almost every other block and no shortage, all I am saying is that it is bad and can cause issues if you FORCE someone to provide the service, you wake up and the "procedure" went wrong and they have it now so you can't sue and even if you did would it repair any damage? No, and as Doc said there is no shortage of Doctors that provide the service safely without being forced

IN RESPONSE:

anchower
Jul 6, 09 8:05 PM CDT

There most certainly is a "shortage of Doctors that provide the service safely without being forced." Not every woman in the country lives around where you do.

| 0 minutes ago

vwright1
Jul 6, 09 8:26 PM CDT

"Damn it, Hotlips! Resign your GD commission! M.A.S.H. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Abdulsamadabdul
Jul 6, 09 9:40 PM CDT

Come on now, after quitting are these guys and/or girls gonna take vows of poverty and go into monasteries? Reply

| 0 minutes ago

oldgoat
Jul 7, 09 2:14 AM CDT

I think the problem comes into play when a person lives in a area with limited selection of doctors and hospitals. The doctors took a oath to heal. As long as the procedure is legal and valid then the doctors have a obligation to also follow the beliefs of the person they are treating. What the doctors are saying is that my beliefs are above the use of legal and legit procedures and the beliefs of my patient. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Parvus
Jul 7, 09 10:52 AM CDT

it's flagrantly irresponsible to abandon your post as a health-care provider based on a religious whim. unless you work in a clinic that is explicitly in line with a religious group and warns patients that their doctor's performance is limited by mindless scruple, you should be ready to apply all of your knowledge and technique in the interest of your patient (no tricky subclauses). Reply

| 0 minutes ago

dax
Jul 7, 09 3:14 PM CDT

The larger issue here is: why would anyone want to force a doctor to perform a medical procedure on them, knowing that doctor does not really want to do it? It would seem best to have a doctor who was not emotionally or intellectually conflicted over what is being asked of them. Let these docs opt out. Reply

-2

| 0 minutes ago

PrestoEnigma
Jul 7, 09 3:32 PM CDT

You'd think doctors would be smart enough to get over the mass hypnosis that there's a man in the sky controlling everything Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Shannonals
Jul 7, 09 5:14 PM CDT

It's all alot of talk, as if the Doctors would actually quit, it's a worthless threat. Their egos and checkbooks wouldn't allow them to quit. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

leo
Jul 8, 09 1:49 AM CDT

ITS ALL ABOUT POLITICS. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Silverbow7
Jul 18, 09 6:46 PM CDT

It's about freedom. Freedom to think, feel and act according to your own conscience and beliefs, not mine. Not the governments. No law can make you do abortions if you really don't want to do them. In fact, there is no law like that nor could there be. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

View all 58 comments »

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