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SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 2009

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the big plan

Beck Will Host Conventions
to Educate America

He's shifting toward political organizer, plans big DC rally

Nov 21, 09 5:06 PM CST
Senate Democrats Clear
Health Care Hurdle, 60-39

Reid gets 60 votes to open full debate after Thanksgiving recess

Nov 21, 09 7:13 PM CST
Palin Pulls in Big Bucks
—for Democrats

'Going Rogue' boosts Dem fundraising to new high

Nov 21, 09 6:50 AM CST
Matt Taibbi

Palin: Our First WWE Politician

Pick an asshole, any asshole, and she'll rock the house

4 hours, 3 minutes ago
demagogue alert

Lawmaker Paints Target on Barack Obama's Back

Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert panders to dangerous paranoids

Nov 21, 09 9:08 AM CST
Reid Gets 60th Vote:
Holdout Lincoln Agrees

She'll allow health care bill to move forward; vote at 8pm

Nov 21, 09 1:51 PM CST
Billboard Links Obama to Jihad

Colo. car dealership wants this opinion heard

Nov 20, 09 8:42 PM CST
HE'S GOT A BOOK OUT, TOO

Beck to Unveil
'Big Plan' at
Saturday Rally

Righty pundit OK with destroying Dems and GOP

Nov 20, 09 8:07 PM CST
NO COMMUNION FOR YOU, MY SON

RI Bishop Disses
Kennedy Over
Pro-Choice
Stance

Spat over Patrick's position on abortion escalates

6 hours, 24 minutes ago
Neglected Ind. Fans Boo Palin

Hecklers accuse her of 'quitting on the job'

Nov 20, 09 3:50 PM CST
Limbaugh's Wrong: Gallup's Obama Approval Below 50%

New survey is latest disappointment for President

Nov 20, 09 2:03 PM CST
Obama's Stimulus Finally
Gets Some Respect

Warring economists agree that it has helped—if not enough

Nov 21, 09 6:21 AM CST
TALK SHOW ROUNDUP

McConnell:
Dems Proceed
at 2010 Peril

Senators hit the Sunday talk shows after health vote

3 hours, 32 minutes ago

|NEXT STORY »

OPINION

NRA Shouldn't Tolerate Gun-Toting Protesters

It's just not a safe way to use a firearm

By Kevin Spak| Posted Aug 20, 09 9:34 AM CDT|

(Newser) – If the National Rifle Association is really, to quote its website “dedicated to the lawful, effective, responsible, and above all safe use of firearms,” then it should loudly discourage people from carrying those firearms to political rallies, writes Stephen Stromberg of the Washington Post. Politics aside, it’s just bad gun safety. "I'm an Eagle Scout trained in firearm use, and I can’t count the number of possible accidents that could result from lugging a heavy semi-automatic into a large crowd."

The first rule of gun safety is to never take out a weapon unless you have to. “And given that there’s no need to hunt game or defend oneself at a heavily policed political rally,” these guys don’t have to, Stromberg argues. The NRA "can and should scream that this isn’t appropriate firearm use," and tell politicians that it won’t hurt their NRA rating to do likewise. Speaking out against it isn't an infringement of the Second Amendment: "It’s merely an exhortation to treat rightful gun ownership with responsibility."

[Images (1)]

[Quotes (2)]

In this Tuesday, Aug. 11, 2009 file photo, William Kostnic wears a 9mm pistol as he stands outside a town hall meeting on health care held by President Barack Obama, in Portsmouth, NH. (AP Photo/Joel Page, File)

« Prev« Prev | Next »Next » Slideshow

I'm an Eagle Scout trained in firearm use, and I can’t count the number of possible accidents that could result from lugging a heavy semi-automatic into a
large crowd. - Stephen Stromberg

That’s not an infringement or even a criticism of the NRA’s interpretation of the Second Amendment. It’s merely an exhortation to treat rightful gun ownership with responsibility. - Stephen Stromberg, on why politicians should discourage gun-toting protesters

« Prev« Prev | Next »Next » Slideshow

11.20.09

The Health-Care Wars Have Just Begun

11.19.09

Sarah Palin Deserves Some More Attention

46 comments

VIEWING:

Ucantusethatname
Aug 20, 09 9:36 AM CDT

"The first rule of gun safety is to never take out a weapon unless you have to." Carrying a weapon is not brandishing or taking out a weapon. Reply

-19

IN RESPONSE:

calkino
Aug 20, 09 10:02 AM CDT

explain, please, how carrying a semi-automatic firearm strapped over your shoulder is not "brandishing" that weapon. does it have to be pointed in someone's face for it to be "brandished?"

+21

IN RESPONSE:

odowd80
Aug 20, 09 10:07 AM CDT

I think by "take out" he means take out of the house, or take out of storage to carry on your person.

IN RESPONSE:

DJM420
Aug 20, 09 10:17 AM CDT

pretty sure he means 'take it out in public' . its absolutely not necessary. and if it is necessary, where were they at the tea-bagging parties?

IN RESPONSE:

DJM420
Aug 20, 09 10:22 AM CDT

and btw, dont pretend like you wouldn't drop a load if a big black dude with a sidearm walked in your store 'exercising his right'...you know this shit is accident waiting to happen. you know deep down this isnt normal. it really seems like you want this to happen...

+12

IN RESPONSE:

UrUndertaker
Aug 20, 09 10:33 AM CDT

Ucanntusecommonsense, your remark "Carrying a weapon is not brandishing or taking out a weapon" is total b/s and you know it. As an Avid gun owner I knew damn well those particular guns the clowns were brandishing would otherwise have been in protective cases, if they were there and carried the guns in the case then it would have been carrying a weapon, once removed from the cases then it is brandishing........DMJ has a very valid point. If I broght my "Big Black A$$" into your store and had an AR-15 on me you would be hitting the silent alarm while reaching for that sawed off shotgun or pistol you keep under the counter, been there and done that so don't say it isn't true. A Black man such as myself has had to watch a white guy freak out just because we "don't fit in with your normal coustomers"

IN RESPONSE:

AmiBlue
Aug 20, 09 11:12 AM CDT

brandish: To bear something with ostentatious show source: wikipedia

IN RESPONSE:

Netstorm2k9
Aug 20, 09 5:15 PM CDT

Who cares what these naysayers think? I totally agree with you. The first time some asshole goes nuts and starts shooting up the mall they're in, they'll be praying there's some open carry person around to protect them.

-2

| 0 minutes ago

sully4411
Aug 20, 09 9:47 AM CDT

Great article - I hadnt even considered this! What are these guys trying to prove anyhow? That they're serious about their disapproval of Obama's Health Care reform? They should just scream louder during the town hall meetings, maybe then we'll think they have some legitimacy...... Reply

+12

| 0 minutes ago

Doctor_Zaius
Aug 20, 09 10:01 AM CDT

The whole point of bringing these weapons to the rallies was to provoke a response from the Secret Service/Police so they could bolster their erroneous claims that the Obama administration wants to take away their guns. Pretty ironic considering Bush protesters were arrested for much, much less. Reply

+16

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Aug 20, 09 10:54 AM CDT

Exactly. Like wearing anti-Bush t-shirts. T-SHIRTS.

| 0 minutes ago

gabo
Aug 20, 09 10:08 AM CDT

Since when does logic work with the NRA? Reply

+15

IN RESPONSE:

DJM420
Aug 20, 09 10:19 AM CDT

This comment has been removed by Newser’s community. You must be logged in to view this comment.

| 0 minutes ago

DavoMax
Aug 20, 09 10:38 AM CDT

What will be funny is if a gun goes off and it happen to injure another repub. No harm-no foul, right? Reply

-5

| 0 minutes ago

wwwonderer
Aug 20, 09 10:57 AM CDT

It seemed that the NRA held the position of firearms were for protection and hunting. How's doing either of those things at a town hall meeting. It seems the real reason most have for gun possession is to feel powerful. Sad. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Tarantulas
Aug 25, 09 2:23 PM CDT

People have the right to self protection at all times. To refresh your memory, Phoenix is at this time the kidnapping capital of the US. Carrying self protection is a prudent measure here.

| 0 minutes ago

onebadc20
Aug 20, 09 11:22 AM CDT

Every one of you keep saying that you don't need to protect yourself in a town hall meeting. The point of a ccw permit is for protection against the unkown. The unkown can happen anywhere, and yes, even at a town hall meeting that is heavily policed. Always be prepared. Reply

-4

IN RESPONSE:

DavoMax
Aug 20, 09 12:28 PM CDT

If you are THAT worried about your safety at a town meeting maybe you should stay at home. As far as we know, the only ones there with guns are rightwingers and the police.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Aug 20, 09 2:20 PM CDT

You are not allowed to take the law into your own hands. You kill someone (even in self defense) you better damn well better be able to prove it.

IN RESPONSE:

Toon
Aug 20, 09 2:58 PM CDT

DavoMax, maybe the weapon is for protection from a liberal slogan on a T-shirt. You know how dangerous ideas are.

IN RESPONSE:

Netstorm2k9
Aug 20, 09 5:21 PM CDT

DavoMax, you really think criminals obey gun laws? You really think all criminals are right wing? You really think you're clever? If you're afraid of a citizen carrying a gun at his hip, you should be just as afraid of a cop with a gun at his hip. And if you're that afraid of a gun, period, you should just stay in bed. If we'd had a nation full of people like you in the 1770's, we'd still be speaking with British accents. Cowards.

| 0 minutes ago

acerbus80
Aug 20, 09 1:32 PM CDT

The first rule of firearm safety is to treat every gun as if it's loaded. Eagle Scout=/=Gun Expert. And brandishing is a very subjective term. If I walked to a protest with, say, a teddy bear out in open site, would that be brandishing it? Has anyone ever been accused of brandishing an MP3 player. However, whenever someone has a gun, despite their actions, it's considered brandishing, which carries a demeaning or threatening stigma. Just more spin from the media to wade through. Reply

-2

IN RESPONSE:

Unaffiliated
Aug 20, 09 3:00 PM CDT

If you were holding the teddy bear "with ostentatious show", then yes, that'd be teddy bear brandishing.

-2

| 0 minutes ago

Beasterbunny
Aug 20, 09 1:57 PM CDT

Basically, a significant majority of NRA members looks at weapons as an extension of their manhood (or womanhood) Why would you think its leadership is any different? You can't reason with irrational people! Reply

-3

IN RESPONSE:

acerbus80
Aug 20, 09 3:03 PM CDT

It is pretty difficult to reason with irrational people, especially those that jump to conclusions based on unreasonable and biased stereotypes or judgements.

IN RESPONSE:

Beasterbunny
Aug 20, 09 4:24 PM CDT

"It is pretty difficult to reason with irrational people, especially those that jump to conclusions based on unreasonable and biased stereotypes or judgements" Since when has the NRA been rational and reasonable with there support of guns? When they fought to allow selling of cop killer bullets? When they are against registration of handguns? When they fought against the ban on large magazines of 50 rounds or more for weapons? When has the NRA been reasonable, give an example! Just one!

| 0 minutes ago

Timinator2K
Aug 20, 09 2:00 PM CDT

Conceal/Carry Permit, Okay, Good, Fine. BUT...NOT ANYWHERE AROUND or, NEAR A PRESIDENT. You want to get freakin' shot by the SS who may very ***easily*** mistake your intentions, you go right ahead, push it...the SS, NO MATTER WHAT, will be justified in killing your stupid ass...and you will have asked for it...and given responsible gun owners a crap load of grief in their quest to KEEP their 2nd Amendment rights. Reply

+12

IN RESPONSE:

odowd80
Aug 21, 09 12:05 PM CDT

I think you said it here best, Tim.

IN RESPONSE:

Tarantulas
Aug 25, 09 2:27 PM CDT

The protest was nowhere near the President. Anyone who gets within viewing distance of the President is always screened for weapons. There were no arrests at the protest and no one was injured. It was a non-event except for the news media, who made a big deal out of a few holstered pistols.

| 0 minutes ago

Mia
Aug 20, 09 4:08 PM CDT

Political based events with two different sides present are very emotionally charge. This is just asking for it. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Netstorm2k9
Aug 20, 09 5:26 PM CDT

If they're not pulling the gun out and firing off rounds willy-nilly, then who gives a shit. Tons of people carry guns daily, and get by without ever having a problem. But one dumb kid plays with something he shouldn't, and the media goes nuts, then next thing you know, everyone acts like it happens every second. So they scream at their politicians, who pass laws that only law abiding people, the ones who don't go crazy and shoot people, obey. Reply

-1

| 0 minutes ago

Cat-Lover
Aug 20, 09 8:12 PM CDT

I want us to Repeal the Second Amendment. It is no longer timely or viable in our current society. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Even-Steven
Aug 24, 09 10:10 AM CDT

Precisely the only reason why i give to these organizations. I work for our government and understand that there is a fine line between governance and tyranny. The problem is the incremental erosion of our rights from Bush now through Obama (potentially). If not by force, how can we, and how could our founding fathers have righted the injustices placed upon us by our government?

| 0 minutes ago

Hawthorn
Aug 20, 09 9:07 PM CDT

I am an NRA member and "never take out a gun unless you have to" is not an NRA safety rule. But "ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use" is. Not all the guns carried at Town Halls and Obama events have been loaded, but some apparently have, and this is simply unsafe in a crowded environment. The Secret Service may feel it has POTUS protected and they may be right, but eventually someone's going to get into a shoving match and shots will be fired if people don't get over this silliness. As a proud and patriotic conservative American who voted for McCain but stands by my President as I was taught to, I am sickened by this current nonsense and I hope it cools down soon. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Tarantulas
Aug 25, 09 2:40 PM CDT

When you are leaving your house with your gun in its holster on your hip, it is by definition "ready to use," and it should be loaded. If you are packing around an unloaded gun, then you are not prepared to defend yourself and others. You would look pretty silly if the gang member started firing into the crowd and you tried to respond, but your gun went "click" instead of "bang" because you forgot to load it.

| 0 minutes ago

Shannonals
Aug 20, 09 9:47 PM CDT

Hmmmm, alot of debate going on about this issue, but all I can say is that no one ever displayed weapons around any other President, except for the loons who eventually took shots at them. The Second Amendment is vital to Americans, but there is never a good reason to display them in public when the President is in the surrounding area Reply

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Even-Steven
Aug 24, 09 10:14 AM CDT

You're probably right. It's a safety issue for my President.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Tarantulas
Aug 25, 09 2:43 PM CDT

Substitute the word "brandished" for "displayed" in your post and you would be correct. In this case the pistols were safely holstered and the rifle was safely slung over the owner's back. The rifle owner had notified the Phoenix PD that he would be carrying it that day, and PD had a plainclothes officer watching him...to make sure the crowd didn't bother him. So there were no safety issues and the President was never threatened.

| 0 minutes ago

cognitivefilter
Aug 20, 09 11:32 PM CDT

stromberg sounds like a very rational guy. hope this catches on Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Reader44614809
Aug 21, 09 7:14 AM CDT

An AR-15 may be many things, but heavy it ain't. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

lietomelibs
Aug 21, 09 12:34 PM CDT

Believe me, if the SS had deemed the man a threat to Mr. Obama, he would have been dealt with. You don't have to like that he was carrying, but you do have to respect his right to do so. I don't like the ideology of liberal, but I would never deny them their right to express those ideals, even though they are the biggest hypocrites. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Hawthorn
Aug 21, 09 11:57 PM CDT

"You don't have to like that he was carrying, but you do have to respect his right to do so." Actually I don't have to do anything except die and pay taxes. Carrying loaded in a crowd is dangerous. Peace officers and active military are trained to manage the danger - civilian protestors aren't. Depending on the state, I may *acknowledge* a protestor's legal right to carry loaded near a town hall or rally, however, it's fair to ask a few questions. When did the New Hampshire guy actually load his gun? If he loaded it at home and drove it loaded to the rally, he violated NH state law. No way to know, and no energy to prosecute such things in the Granite State, but it's the law. If an actual assassin wanted to attack an elected official, these gun-studded crowds would be manna from heaven. Let's hope we don't find out the hard way. Reply

-1

| 0 minutes ago

Even-Steven
Aug 24, 09 10:07 AM CDT

2nd ammendment wasn't designed to allow people to hunt or defend themselves from criminals. Taken in historical context, that has always been implied as being an American or Frontiersman. 2nd Ammendment was designed for the violent overthrow of our government should it become tyranical. I'm not sure why those here don't remember that from 8th grade civics? These Tea-baggers or whatever they're called weren't breaking any laws. As much as those of you who are fearful of guns don't like it, no laws were broken! Get over it. Personally I think it's a statement that he was making that I don't necessarily agree with nor would I do. But you can't look over the facts to make your point. 1. No laws were broken 2. The constitution of the United States of America grants individuals the right to keep and bear arms It was also derived from English Law to keep watch and ward at night to capture and confront suspicious persons. (Origins of the bill of rights) He's trying to say that our government is tyranical and he is willing to overthrow it by force if it doesn't change. These folks on the "right" are getting fed up by big government. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Hawthorn
Aug 27, 09 8:32 AM CDT

The question is whether it is "tyranical"[sic] simply to be outvoted in a general election. "If our guy loses, the guns come out" is probably not what the Framers had in mind. When we see that happening in other countries, we thank our lucky stars that we live in America. When we see it happening here, it's time for a chill pill. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

jagerhans
Aug 28, 09 2:31 PM CDT

you americans have in the average an incredible freedom when it comes to guns. i, alone among the european, think this is a good thing for democracy. so it's no big deal if you state by law that political rallies are sacred ground where leaving the guns at the door is mandatory. do you seriously think that this single prohibition could endanger your rights? sportsmen, hunters, it is better to accept a small limitation than having to face gun bans if some 'fruitcake' (funny expressions you have. i learned this one today) suddenly decides that time has come to purify america. the emotional impact of such a disgrace would be enough to call for drastical gun bans and get it. you don't want that,right? then pass a decent law and see if you can refrain your madmen from 'heroic deeds' . Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Monjubikahn
Oct 12, 09 7:08 AM CDT

Open carry is the law of the land. Obama said that he would not take peoples guns away. The Democrats seem to want this to happen as they fight consealed carry. They fight consealed carry in national parks. What will the people do? They will lawfully carry them openly. Guns do not kill people. People kill people. You have a greater chance of being stabbed by the butcher knife in your kitchen drawer than to be shot by a gun. Necessity has nothing to do with the exercising of rights. With regards to guns it is maintaining a prescribed state of preparedness that was set at the foundation of this Republic. It is not to be removed or abrigated. We as gun owners are expected to protect ourselves, our families, the community and when deputized supplement law enforcement. In times of invasion or oppression by a standing army, we as citizens form malitias to protect the home land and drive out the invaders. Security is not a given in this world it is something that is maintained and required of us by God. David was a citizen with a 44 magnum sling before he became a soldier and a king. I wish that we had more World War II vets to speak up for reasonable discourse on gun rights. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

View all 46 comments »

NRA • gun control • protests • health care reform • town hall meeting • National Rifle Association • political protest • guns

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NRA Shouldn't Tolerate Gun-Toting Protesters

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NRA Shouldn't Tolerate Gun-Toting Protesters

It's just not a safe way to use a firearm

[Images (1)]

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Related Newser Stories

Dems Gird for Battle Over Veterans Day Recess

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