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TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 24, 2009

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analysis

Book Tour Shows Palin
Hitting a Nerve

'Going Rogue' phenomenon may foreshadow something bigger

Nov 22, 09 2:46 PM CST
Matt Taibbi

Palin: Our First WWE Politician

Pick an asshole, any asshole, and she'll rock the house

Nov 22, 09 10:44 AM CST
ROLLICKING RHODE ISLAND

Zip It on
Communion
Ban: Bishop
to Kennedy

Tobin thinks Patrick's spiritual matters should be left private

Nov 23, 09 1:21 PM CST
DAVID FRUM

Pundits Lie, Numbers Don't:
Women Despise Palin

Frum: So stop telling us how popular she is with 'the people'

Nov 23, 09 9:26 PM CST
Once-Profitable Services
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Utilities, transport, even gambling, are now $3.5B drains

Nov 23, 09 11:52 AM CST
Debt-Happy US Faces Payback Time as Rates Rise

Cost of debt to skyrocket $500B in next 10 years

Nov 23, 09 7:29 AM CST
First State Dinner to
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Mad scramble for invitations

Nov 23, 09 1:42 AM CST
Ethics Panel Charges Sanford With 37 Violations

Civil committee slams SC gov for travel expenses

Nov 23, 09 2:25 PM CST
the big plan

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to Educate America

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editorial

NYT to Blankfein:
Your 'Apology'
Is Bull

Editorial board schools Goldman CEO in true meaning of 'sorry'

Nov 22, 09 4:53 PM CST
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The Fed

Bernanke & Co. run into populist ire over Wall St bailouts, unemployment

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Palin Pulls in Big Bucks
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'Going Rogue' boosts Dem fundraising to new high

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|NEXT STORY »

OPINION

Liberals Ought to Ditch the Public Option

An incentivized private market can cover everyone, at lower cost

By Kevin Spak| Posted Sep 8, 09 11:40 AM CDT|

(Newser) – Liberals need to abandon the notion that no health care reform is acceptable without a public option, former Clinton aide and health industry consultant Matt Miller writes in the Washington Post. Progressives’ top priority should be to make sure every American can access group coverage outside an employment setting, and this is our best chance to do that in a generation.

Switzerland and the Netherlands have proven that it’s possible for private insurers to cover everyone at lower cost—there, government incentives, including "risk adjustments," or subsidies for more expensive enrollees, have insurers clamoring to cover the sick. “Yes, it means that we’ll have billions of ‘health’ dollars siphoned off by middlemen and marketers,” Miller allows. “But if liberals think of it as a jobs program, they’ll learn to love it.”

Anna E. of New York, right, and others participate in a vigil to support a public health insurance option Wednesday Sept. 2, 2009 in New York. (AP Photo/Tina Fineberg)

Bea Lieberman, of New York, left, and others participate in a vigil to support a public health insurance option Wednesday Sept. 2, 2009 in New York. (AP Photo/Tina Fineberg)

Protesters call for a public health insurance option during a demonstration outside an Independence Blue Cross building in Philadelphia, Thursday, Sept. 3, 2009. (AP Photo/Matt Rourke)

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11.23.09

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The Health-Care Wars Have Just Begun

37 comments

VIEWING:

DJM420
Sep 8, 09 11:48 AM CDT

i dont mind, maybe do this now, and add PO later if needed... at least it'd be something....the status quo sux Reply

IN RESPONSE:

osu1067
Sep 8, 09 11:49 AM CDT

agreed.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Forderon
Sep 8, 09 12:04 PM CDT

No no no. What the article doesn't mention is that the Swiss system is heavily regulated and they're not allowed to deny care. Unless the Reps are willing to heavily regulate a private health industry (yea right, look what they did with Wall St.), then giving up on the PO should be a deal-breaker.

+14

IN RESPONSE:

Reader64481089
Sep 8, 09 12:27 PM CDT

B/S, they post this dribble due to the fact that this is as close as it has over come. The Birther movement. the gun idiots watering their tiny tree, all of it engineered in an attempt to convince people how futile change is and to accept being led like cattle.....The Public Option is needed desperately, quit trading away someone else life because you value your own life more. The Public option is needed for many who have no voice and for whom the Death Panels of the Insurance company have already spoken

+17

IN RESPONSE:

ljm
Sep 8, 09 1:56 PM CDT

OSU, the truth is tha the "radical left" has already made a very huge compromise in this debate. At the beginning of the debate, they allowed single payer to be taken off the table w/o a huge outcry. The people pushing for a public choice option are not the radical left... just average americans who want true and meaningful reform. I with the "radical left" had been more vocal then we would be having this convesation about single payer and could compromise on the public health plan. The right on the other hand, has not compromised on any point nor been willing to even have a legitiamate conversation. There is a difference.

| 0 minutes ago

osu1067
Sep 8, 09 11:48 AM CDT

Seems like a reasonable idea to consider alternatives to the public option/gov. option. I'm sure open-minded liberals can see that. It's regrettable though that close minded radicals on the left will oppose it (and will give a thumbs down for me saying it). There as big an obstructionist as the right wing radicals who want no reform whatsoever. Reply

-3

IN RESPONSE:

Forderon
Sep 8, 09 12:10 PM CDT

Oh please, do you see any Dem. Senators proposing to slit their wrists as a ritual to oppose healthcare reform (Bachmann)? Do you see people on the left going batshit crazy over the propose co-op alternative? No, because they simply want reform of any kind. And why are there so many opponents of reform within the Democratic party itself? Don't bother trying to equate the tactics on the right with the left. That's a losing argument.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

osu1067
Sep 8, 09 12:23 PM CDT

Forderon: your reply is a perfect example of the phrase, "I substitute your reality and replace it with my own". Choose to look at this situation however you will. The fact is left radicals are just as opposed to reform that has no public/gov. option as right radicals are opposed to any reform. They will only accept their way of doing things. "Don't bother trying to equate the tactics on the right with the left. That's a losing argument." You're mistaken, I never argued tactics. I argued the ends. Both sides want it their way and will not compromise.

-4

IN RESPONSE:

emptycalm
Sep 8, 09 12:34 PM CDT

Doesn't seem to reasonable to me. Either you're on the side of the insurance industry or you're on the side of the working class.

IN RESPONSE:

osu1067
Sep 8, 09 12:38 PM CDT

empycalm: So you either with us or against us. Didn't a former president take a lot of heat for thinking that way. I reject your reality that this issue is working class vs. insurance companies. Its much bigger than that. Your narrow minded perception clouds your judgment.

IN RESPONSE:

osu1067
Sep 8, 09 12:39 PM CDT

Thanks for all the thumbs down "Caps"! I think you're my biggest fan. thumb and run. It's what your best at!

-2

IN RESPONSE:

emptycalm
Sep 8, 09 2:52 PM CDT

Essentially it is just that.Although It may not be the best time right this moment to make all these sweeping changes, in the very near future, one needs to choose which side they are on because the two cannot co-exist without the working class being fucked over. The democrats will drop the public option because of bi-partisanship, don't worry. When it comes down to it, they have already chosen their side. This constant compromise does not favor the working class though.

IN RESPONSE:

aces08
Sep 8, 09 4:25 PM CDT

Sadly Ose the idiot right is the one who makes it your with us or against us. The left just calls it as they see it. If the right had their way the insurance companies would profit and if the left could get their way, a single payer system, the working class profits. It's two sided because the right wont even allow a public option which is a compromise for everyone. Insurance companies can still make a profit and the working people get an affordable alternative but the right wants it all profit for the insurance companies whereas the left will compromise. So the right has the mentality of with us or against us. Please think before you talk about your idiot right wing leaders. They have their plan and your just the sheep.

IN RESPONSE:

cornelison
Sep 9, 09 1:04 AM CDT

Your reps. in Congress have a health care plan that includes a govt.-run hospital (Bathesda). It's an excellent GOVT-RUN hospital.

IN RESPONSE:

osu1067
Sep 9, 09 9:23 AM CDT

@cornelison: Yes it's a wonderful gov. run health care plan. And its a great BENEFIT for our elected officials. Unfortunately, it is also very expensive to provide that quality health care to several hundred people in Congress. How can we afford to do that for 300 million people and still keep that quality??? BTW, the same gov. that runs Bethesda also runs Walter Reed and we all have found out how great the conditions there have been.

| 0 minutes ago

JonmarkP
Sep 8, 09 11:50 AM CDT

Health industry consultant Matt Miller says... "Yes, it means that we’ll have billions of ‘health’ dollars siphoned off by middlemen and marketers,” Miller allows. Well shit fire, Matt, that's just exactly what we have now! (only it's trillions, not billions) It's a jobs program where some people who contribute nothing to quality of care make $20,000 per hour, and others who do the actual work make $6.50 with no health insurance. So Matt, my recommendation to you is that you just shove this plan right up your ass. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

QueenAlli
Sep 8, 09 11:50 AM CDT

Just Get Er Done, man. Just Get Er Done. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

fancygapva
Sep 8, 09 10:10 PM CDT

And what would that mean? That is the root of the conflict in this and all other policy matters. No, I take that back. Campaign support and flat out bribery are the roots of conflict in all policy matters. We don't have people representing us who are considering our well being.

| 0 minutes ago

JaneMP
Sep 8, 09 11:56 AM CDT

Doesn't this sound like a bail-out for the health care industry? I ask that as a liberal who supports the president completely. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

emptycalm
Sep 8, 09 12:00 PM CDT

If the german people see the camps as jobs program than they will learn to love it! Reply

| 0 minutes ago

polstroad
Sep 8, 09 12:09 PM CDT

Why point to two nations that in fact subsidize the health insurance industry when there are so many more nations that have a p;ublic plan...and it works! If radicals don't like the suggestions, so too the right wing does not like anying but the system that has not worked for these many years. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

odowd80
Sep 8, 09 12:53 PM CDT

We can go to single-payer in 2011 after the blue-dogs and republicans lose their seats to real democrats. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

timeandagain
Sep 8, 09 2:40 PM CDT

That you believe that is exactly WHY Obamacare fails!

IN RESPONSE:

dax
Sep 8, 09 3:04 PM CDT

@timeandagain --- prove your point.

| 0 minutes ago

Mercury
Sep 8, 09 1:40 PM CDT

Is there anyone against a public option who has ever tried to buy an individual policy? I can't believe that anyone who ever tried to buy insurance independently would be against it. Having shopped for insurance for my family and for small businesses on many occasions, I see no value in any "reform" that lacks an alternative to the current profiteering of insurance companies. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Dr.Y.Dino
Sep 8, 09 2:07 PM CDT

PO is supposed to lower costs and force insurance companies to compete with it. Will the PO be required to maintain reserves, make a profit, or at least not lose money?? If not, how can it be considered "competition" if the PO doesn't have to follow the same rules??? That's like having GM sell a Chevy for $10,000, to force the other auto makers to lower their price. All it would do is cost the taxpayers a bundle and force the other automakers out of business. If the PO isn't supposed to break even, then how will they set the price?? If the PO is free, and there are no co-pays or deductibles, then the public won't care what (unnecessary) services they get or what they actually cost. Reply

-2

IN RESPONSE:

dax
Sep 8, 09 3:18 PM CDT

Should an unnecessary middle man skim profits off of life-or-death healthcare, acting as a gatekeeper on the basis of their bottomline? If so, then what does that say about the value of human life in this society? The Right is exceedingly confused and/or hypocritical on this issue.

IN RESPONSE:

dax
Sep 8, 09 3:23 PM CDT

Moreover, the much vaunted "free market" is no where evident in the current health insurance industry where there is no portability for the consumer.

IN RESPONSE:

Thinker
Sep 8, 09 4:04 PM CDT

Not really. When state universities were introduced, people screamed that the private universities would be put out of business. Yale and Harvard are still around, aren't they? There are always enough rich people to keep their institutions going. No need to worry about the rich ...

IN RESPONSE:

Dr.Y.Dino
Sep 8, 09 7:10 PM CDT

Sorry dax, but the cost of a government "middle man" will end up cost far more than the profits you complain about. I can buy a hammer for $20 at Sears, but the Gov't paid $500 ... and that doesn't count all the staff they used to assure they were getting the lowest bid. I agree many "reforms" are needed, including tort reform, but having the gov't run health insurance will NOT end up costing less. Remember, gov't managers are not ever paid to cut costs or .staff.. In fact, they earn more if they have larger staffs. Gov't managers can't get rid of bad employees, so their best hope is to get them transferred. Ex: The OFHEO employeed hundreds at a cost of Millions per year for 18 years with the sole task to monitor Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. All they did was hire more people to cover their butts and deflect blame away from themselves. AND that doesn't count the millions more paid to KPMG to audit their books. The waste included in any gov't run enterprise far and away exceeds the profits made by companies competing against each other in a free market. Remember the IRS spends tens of billions each year on tax software that TurboTax and others can sell for less than $50. Remove politics and outsource the IRS in a competitive market and taxpayers could save 90%, at the very least. Profits are not bad, excessive monopolistic profits are bad, but gov't waste is far more expensive and just plain stupid!!!

IN RESPONSE:

dax
Sep 8, 09 10:15 PM CDT

Dr.Dino - No need to apologize for your reliance on tired old generalizations about big bad government spending. If you are so concerned about government waste, best you look after the 1/3 of your annual tax bill that helps subsidize white elephants like the $4 billion dollar Airborne Laser. ------ Porking the public is not just the domain of the government (Enron, AIG et. al.) Sure, there needs to be stringent controls/ auditing of ANY healthcare program public or private. That in itself does NOT preclude a functional government health program. (I recall healthcare in the military being pretty good).---- We live in the digital age, and yet the insurance/health companies do not interface seamlessly; in fact their strangulated document process recalls the Tower of Babel. Surely the private sector should be able to do better then this, having a vast array of technologies at their disposal. But to simplify and expedite would be divulging the code of "list pricing" and the game wouldn't be as fun, or as profitable. ---- Should something as personal, as sacred as one's health be consigned to a profit center? Breast enhancement and tummy tucks surely, but heart attacks and birth defects? This mania for regarding every aspect of human life in terms of R.O.I, just doesn't square with those other Conservative values of pro-family and pro-life.--- Funny that you should end with your comparison of TurboTax and the IRS. Are you suggesting we abolish the IRS and give the work to Intuit? Who's gonna audit Intuit? Peachtree?

| 0 minutes ago

timeandagain
Sep 8, 09 2:39 PM CDT

Obamacare = Hillarycare... Both lose!! Reply

-7

IN RESPONSE:

dax
Sep 8, 09 3:06 PM CDT

@timeandagain - you make these slogan utterances without any substantiation repeatedly----hence one might suppose your choice of screen name.

| 0 minutes ago

dax
Sep 8, 09 3:13 PM CDT

The concept of "reform" should address 1) cost and 2) ease of application. Buttressing up the existing system with political expediencies is NOT reform. Meaningful reform cannot take place if the 800 pound gorilla represented by the middle men (insurance/administration) continues to sit on the consumer's chest. The insurance/administrators account for 1 out of every 3 dollars spent on health care, for the sole purpose of creating a complex, arcane system requiring their continued presence. Have any of you people attempted to decipher a health insurance statement lately? Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Snarfeh
Sep 8, 09 7:32 PM CDT

Jesus would be *for* a public option. Jesus was a liberal, ya know...love that about him.... Reply

| 0 minutes ago

fancygapva
Sep 8, 09 10:06 PM CDT

Incentivized, my ass. These insurance people have incentivized themselves and short changed the public to death. Literally. No civilized country behaves like we do to the disadvantaged. The CHURCHES preach it: If you' re rich it's 'cause God loves you--If you're poor you are being punished, likewise if you're sick, mentally retarded, have birth defects or traumatic brain injuries. If you're old, forget it, it's time for you to die. And maybe it is time for the old to die, to not be preserved as vegetables. But THAT is not what Health INSURANCE Reform is about. Neither is Universal Health Care what Health INSURANCE Reform is about. That's about how the profits are to be sliced up. Period. I am a very disappointed Obama supporter. It wouldn't take much to push me into Kucinich's court. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

cornelison
Sep 9, 09 3:39 AM CDT

Say that to the 43,000,000 who have no insurance. Is it just the minority of Americans who care about them? Aren't they worth helping? Reply

| 0 minutes ago

View all 37 comments »

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