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|NEXT STORY »

3 of 4 Oklahoma Students Can't Name First President

Only 3% would pass US citizenship test

By Kevin Spak| Posted Sep 17, 09 3:35 PM CDT|

(Newser) – Are you smarter about American history than a recent immigrant? Most of the students in Oklahoma’s public high schools aren’t. A conservative think tank asked thousands of high school kids to answer 10 questions drawn from the citizenship test given to recent immigrants. Would-be citizens have to answer six correctly, and 92% do so on their first try. By contrast, only 3% of the Oklahoma students would have.

A whopping 77% couldn’t name the first president, and 90% didn’t know how many justices are on the Supreme Court. (The question most knew—61%—involved naming the ocean on the East Coast.) The problem is not just an issue for Oklahoma; a study in Arizona yielded similar results. “It points to a real serious problem,” says one think tank member. “Jefferson said that a nation can’t expect to be ignorant and free.”

George Washington is depicted on the battlefield in this engraving by Nathaniel Currier. (Getty Images)

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77 comments

VIEWING:

pkmac4
Sep 17, 09 3:39 PM CDT

Clearly an issue of edumacation. It probably has to do with the fact that teacher's don't get paid well in these places. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Forderon
Sep 17, 09 3:43 PM CDT

Is that sarcasm? Those facts listed in the source article are common sense facts that every American above age 10 should know. There is absolutely no excuse.

+23

IN RESPONSE:

BlahBlahBlah
Sep 17, 09 3:47 PM CDT

Agreed Forderon, those are VERY basic facts. That is just disturbing.

+10

IN RESPONSE:

pkmac4
Sep 17, 09 3:51 PM CDT

Have you guys been to the midwest? When your family's livelihood is dependent on crop harvesting (one of the most physically grueling jobs) I can understand why school isn't as much as a priority. But yes, they SHOULD know it.

-12

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Sep 17, 09 3:53 PM CDT

Oklahoma and Arizona are in the South West. I grew up in suburban Chicagoland and the schools were among the best in the country.

IN RESPONSE:

calkino
Sep 17, 09 3:56 PM CDT

@pkmac4: it's equally ignorant to lump the entire midwest into a bloc of people who apparently all only farm and harvest crops. yes, it's the breadbasket of the country, but it also has cities full of people like yourself. i remember a spot on the tonight show with jay leno where he asked similarly easy questions at a college graduation ceremony and got equally disturbing results. were all of those graduates in new york schooled in the midwest? doubtful.

IN RESPONSE:

Toon
Sep 17, 09 3:59 PM CDT

And the graduates of that educational system are the ones who think that Obama is not a citizen and that Medicare is not government run health care.

IN RESPONSE:

pkmac4
Sep 17, 09 4:02 PM CDT

Yes, I apologize i meant the "bread basket" regions. Granted, there are major cities there with educated people but you know what I'm talking about. I've lived in Montana and North Carolina where these kinds of people, good people mind you, just didn't know this stuff.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Forderon
Sep 17, 09 4:04 PM CDT

Yea exactly, I don't consider it an education issue at all. We require all immigrants to know these basic facts in their citizenship exam, so why can't we hold ourselves to the same standard?

IN RESPONSE:

WallyEFunk
Sep 17, 09 9:20 PM CDT

OK every everyone .test Ur own kids.and post results.

IN RESPONSE:

Deebles
Sep 17, 09 9:21 PM CDT

Oklahoma where the sun shines..... My physics son got a huge salaried first job out of college to pour things down old oil wells in OK. After three months, he wanted to quit and I who had some sucky jobs got a bit peeved. Then I me him in that awful little town where Getty made his fortune and I said--I see your point.

IN RESPONSE:

Adapt-Overcome
Sep 17, 09 10:56 PM CDT

Probably because they are both Republican Run STATES. They are good a cutting funding on education every chance they get.

| 0 minutes ago

Skihawk24
Sep 17, 09 3:46 PM CDT

Coincidence that Oklahoma is one of the most Conservative states in the U.S.? I think not... Reply

+12

IN RESPONSE:

cornelison
Sep 17, 09 9:12 PM CDT

Yes. The reason why bad politicians are elected over & over again is due to the fact that too many voters are uneducated. One of their senators tells them that global warming is a hoax. Big oil companies love Se. Inhoff. He's been in Congress since The Ice Age. *LOL*

IN RESPONSE:

Deebles
Sep 17, 09 9:24 PM CDT

Duh, my son made the point that the less teeth you have the more conservative you are. It seems to hold true and I don't know why except that conservatives will not bend for shit, much less plaque.

IN RESPONSE:

Toon
Sep 17, 09 10:14 PM CDT

Deeble you are mistaken. The group with the highest % of Republican voters is those with four year degrees. I think the small business rhetoric that attracts that group.

-3

IN RESPONSE:

unfathomedchaos
Sep 17, 09 10:16 PM CDT

This comment has been removed by Newser’s community. You must be logged in to view this comment.

-9

IN RESPONSE:

Deebles
Sep 18, 09 1:08 AM CDT

Fuck you Deebles is about what you'd expect from someone fathoming chaos. Actually, you kinda spelled it wrong, but now that you've fucked me--where are you gonna go? Save your fucks for when it really gets nasty.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Deebles
Sep 18, 09 1:12 AM CDT

Poor Toon, being glib and no one gets it. I understand. Ninety percent of what I write is totally glib and people attack me like I was quoting the Book of Job.

| 0 minutes ago

JoeQ
Sep 17, 09 3:49 PM CDT

We got Rush to think for us now. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

myvoice
Sep 17, 09 3:50 PM CDT

I wonder if the average american knows how many justices are on the Supreme Court? Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Collusive
Sep 17, 09 6:07 PM CDT

50. Next question.

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Sep 17, 09 7:36 PM CDT

But that's only if you count Canada and Alaska.

IN RESPONSE:

cornelison
Sep 17, 09 8:59 PM CDT

9, Sotomayor is the most recent and she's a moderate. My favorite Justice is Ginsberg. Bill Clinton picked her & I liked her answer to a double-standard question about the military. It had to do about single women, pregnant & in the military. I watched Anita Hill and now Justice Thomas. Justice Scalia is the most extreme right justice on The Supreme Court. Oh, by the way - I'm a Canadian.

IN RESPONSE:

cornelison
Sep 17, 09 9:06 PM CDT

Canada has 9 judges. Even thought I'm a Canadian I don't know their names. The judges are appointed. I remember American politics so well because it's riddled with scandal, corrupted by lobbyists and unbelievably cruel. Cruel? Look at all the Americans who have no health care. Politicians have made the public believe that they don't deserve health care. They view it as a privilege.

IN RESPONSE:

Deebles
Sep 17, 09 9:28 PM CDT

The average American doesn't know who the second president was. And nary a one of you know who Johnson's Vice was after JFK was assassinated. Not without looking, so let's just be nicer. Except to OK and that's just a football betting thing.

| 0 minutes ago

guanlob
Sep 17, 09 3:51 PM CDT

Wait, so who was the first president again? Benjamin Franklin? Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Sep 17, 09 3:56 PM CDT

Caesar Romero!

| 0 minutes ago

wwwonderer
Sep 17, 09 3:55 PM CDT

Not sure how OK looks at ID and Creationism. But if it's anything like the rest of the South, the value the ability to name the 10 commandments more than some dumb ole liberal elitist knowledge. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

godawgs
Sep 17, 09 5:59 PM CDT

Oklahoma is not in the south.

-3

IN RESPONSE:

Forderon
Sep 17, 09 9:03 PM CDT

Oklahoma is not in the south??

IN RESPONSE:

Deebles
Sep 17, 09 9:33 PM CDT

Oddly, most people can't name the Ten Commandments. And while OK isn't in the south, it was settled by settlers from the south so that might be the problem. Got to remember that that Civil War wasn't about slavery per se--it was about Texas and OK having slaves. That's why it is called the Missouri Compromise--dodged that issue.

IN RESPONSE:

Adapt-Overcome
Sep 17, 09 11:05 PM CDT

The may act like a bunch of southern hicks, but Okalahoma is not in the south. They would be considered Red Necks. I lived in Lawton, OK and HATED it there. Actually, I didn't care for much of OK....they don't follow building code, restritctions, etc. You have a beautiful house with a nice yard, then next door you got shim shack with tires on the roof of his trailor.

IN RESPONSE:

Jes
Sep 18, 09 7:54 AM CDT

Southeast Oklahoma is southern, and no one who has been there can say different. It might not be Carolinas southern, but any time you get within 150 miles of the Ozarks you are dealing with the south. OK is a weird mix of western and southern.

IN RESPONSE:

wwwonderer
Sep 18, 09 10:38 AM CDT

@adapt. I was going to say if OK is not considered the south then it is a 'suburb' of TX, if that makes sense. I have an Aunt that's lived in Lawton for over 25 years.

| 0 minutes ago

blackgrl
Sep 17, 09 3:58 PM CDT

"welcome" to our education system. as we continue to make cuts in resources and innovation for our education system, followed by "testing" only what 'someone' claims is important has led to our nation becoming dumber and dumber. we have more than 40 million Americans who can't read above a 4th grade level - wanna guess what the percentage is of those who can read, but don't understand what they're reading? another symptom of why our country is declining. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

northeast
Sep 18, 09 2:08 PM CDT

And yet, as a country we spend more on education per student than anywhere else in the world. What's to be done?

-1

| 0 minutes ago

Rembrandt_Q_Einstein
Sep 17, 09 4:12 PM CDT

"Real" Americans that know nothing about America, I'm loving the irony. Sure it's base, like a fart joke, but it's funny nonetheless. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

serfinWI
Sep 17, 09 4:20 PM CDT

Teachers make on average $47,000 per year (8 1/2 months or so), not including their cadillac health insurance and retirement bennies. Schools spend, on average $10,000 per year per student. And for this we get graduation rates as low as in the 1970's. Stagnant reading and math scores for four decades. US 15 yr old are 24/29 of industrialized nations in math. We need health, history, math, language literate adults to vote. It's not the parents fault and Head Start sure hasn't helped. Kids spend 7 hours a day in school and get fed free and reduced breakfast and lunch for $10,000 for 8 months. We need Teacher Reform before Health Care Reform. If you can't read your prescription, ER or hospital discharge plans, or even read a bottle of Children's Tylenol (is that tsp or tbsp??) that's a big set up for medical mistakes. Much less read your insurance policy or the government health plan. But maybe it's a big conspiracy with the Unions to dumb us all down so we can't possibly comprehend what they are doing to us. Much less read the newspaper. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Sep 17, 09 5:46 PM CDT

Some teachers are paid very well. The district I came from is in the top 5 in the country for results and pay. But not every teacher everywhere starts out at 47k. In fact many places have teachers start out well below this figure. As for the ironclad health insurance again it depends on where you are a teacher.

IN RESPONSE:

mikech
Sep 17, 09 5:50 PM CDT

I'm sick of how people state that teachers are over paid. OK's own web site states that teachers make 38K / year on average. Starting salaries are prob much less. Lets say they start at 28K / year. Divide by 2000 hours and you are making $14 hour. Who are you going to attract for that kind of money? That is barely a living wage. You mention that its only for 8.5 months / year. Who cares? They need to live year round. Maybe we should do away with summer vacations and let them teach through out the year. Or maybe they should be compete with their students for summer jobs at McDonalds?

IN RESPONSE:

Deebles
Sep 17, 09 9:42 PM CDT

I'm with you all the way serfin. I can honestly say as a sorta progressive person that the worst thing that ever happened to this country were unions. The Teamsters were so wicked that RFK realized that they could bring the country to its knees. We've never gone after the teachers unions like we did the rest and we should because there isn't a teacher in a public school that thoroughly knows the subject that they teach. I was lucky to get a public education before the unions. My history teacher in middle school and my English teacher had no certificates--they had Doctorates in their fields. Today, they wouldn't be allowed to teach me. But I can name every President from memory and conjugate to be--in all 96 forms. Who suffers?

-2

IN RESPONSE:

blackgrl
Sep 17, 09 10:13 PM CDT

well The List of things we need to fix seems to exponentially grow as we uncover the filth. the fact is we've continuously neglected the infrastructure of our Federal gov't & its regulatory system, our education system is just one of the many HUGE things that need fixing. somehow it became fine to elect people who believed that the Gov't they're working for is the "problem." i'm not sure i know of another 'job' where you can publicly advocate that the system you belong to is the problem. bizarro! and with that people kept electing those same "gov't is the problem people" to fix institutions that desperately need fixing: aka: our schools.

IN RESPONSE:

Wraith
Sep 17, 09 11:25 PM CDT

@ Doctor, at age 4 I was reading on a 3rd grade level, I also was brought up by my Grandparents and even though I do not buy into organized religion she had me reading Bible verses at age 3, Chapters at age 4. My point to this is why is it always blamed on Teachers? What is wrong with parents sitting down and reading to their children when they are very small ad actually teaching them fundamentals? It seems our society while never taking responsibility for anything always attempts to make someone else the scape goat. I for one know for a fact many teachers have their hands tied in class, they are not allowed to correct a student and they give them work that is never completed at home, the Teacher can't take care of anything other than taking roll, if they do they do not last long. Parents need to learn to be parents again

| 0 minutes ago

polstroad
Sep 17, 09 4:26 PM CDT

that guy in the odd suit depicted here is as tall as his horse! Is the horse a pony or does the guy play professional basketball? Reply

-1

| 0 minutes ago

Unaffiliated
Sep 17, 09 4:29 PM CDT

You can't expect schools to do everything. Parents need to be involved in their children's education from the start. I'd fault the parents just as much as (if not more than) the schools for these kids not knowing who GW was. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

sanagalrc
Sep 17, 09 6:49 PM CDT

That's true, but the schools can be fixed by the government, the parents can't. Also the parents are likely a result of those same broken school systems.

| 0 minutes ago

wizofeverything
Sep 17, 09 4:30 PM CDT

unless one becomes a history teacher or a historian or lands up in front of Jay Leno one wont be asked such question in one's future. so carry on the ignorance 'cos it is bliss Reply

-5

| 0 minutes ago

N_Live
Sep 17, 09 4:31 PM CDT

I think this is truly the base of a lot of problems the fact that our kids arent getting good educations, I understand that in certain states or parts of the country that work is more important than education, but this needs to change if we want to keep our place in the world. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

hwoodude
Sep 17, 09 4:32 PM CDT

Duhhhhhh...what with TV and movies to watch, twiiter, the internet, youtube, text messaging, skype and cell phones.....what do you expect? Kids are too busy prattling on about their juvenile growth and the latest musician, model, clothes, party, gossip, "guys", ....read a book or a newspaper? Huh? Who cares what President " yuh know's" first name is? Reply

| 0 minutes ago

gogo
Sep 17, 09 4:32 PM CDT

Where's Oklahoma? Reply

-4

IN RESPONSE:

unfathomedchaos
Sep 17, 09 10:18 PM CDT

Up your ass!!

-2

IN RESPONSE:

unfathomedchaos
Sep 17, 09 10:21 PM CDT

Probably to busy taking care of your 3 wife's.

-3

| 0 minutes ago

IndependentThinker
Sep 17, 09 4:41 PM CDT

I find it interesting that both the states mentioned in the article are red states. I wonder if the movement of religious based education (abstinence, creationism, generally fighting science like global warming) has anything to do with it. Tell your kids not to listen to some facts and before long they are not listing to any facts (aka watching fox news). Reply

IN RESPONSE:

paul123
Sep 17, 09 5:45 PM CDT

How arrogant, condescending, and prejudiced. Hardly a forward thinking attitude now is it? Stupidity knows no political boundaries, as you have just demonstrated.

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Sep 17, 09 7:39 PM CDT

But it does seem the the short bus school districts are in the Red States, I'm sure it's just a coinkidink.

IN RESPONSE:

paul123
Sep 17, 09 9:36 PM CDT

just a generalization zaius

IN RESPONSE:

unfathomedchaos
Sep 17, 09 10:29 PM CDT

At least we are not in a fucking budget crisis like California. Pretty soon you guys will be third world status.

-2

IN RESPONSE:

IndependentThinker
Sep 18, 09 3:19 PM CDT

You don't like it when people think do you paul123. You just want to attack and berate instead of having a discussions. Well I was just saying that I find it interesting and I was wondering if, I did not say it was because of it. I fear your arrogance and put thoughts into my witting that were just not there. Calm down, take a breath, and try again with a something to say. @unfathomochodass: I am totally with you on that, it is way better to be rich and dumb as a post.

| 0 minutes ago

schmidtkoff
Sep 17, 09 5:12 PM CDT

most of south carolina can't even read above a 10th grade level, let alone be apprised of american history unless it involves the war against the states, then they have that right on. and therein lies the problem they cannot extricate themselves from that past history to forge into the 21st century. it's not just the okies, folks, it's also the deep south. try living here. ignorance is worn like a badge of honor. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Sep 17, 09 7:40 PM CDT

Wow, the part of the country that considers itself the most American is the only part of the country to commit treason en masse.

| 0 minutes ago

Reader60610265
Sep 17, 09 5:58 PM CDT

If this information is true and I'm not saying it's not , this is a very sad situation. Some of the comments above are or appear to be sincere,others are just asinine,and I voted accordingly . Unfortunately I can't give them the rating they really deserve. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Deebles
Sep 18, 09 1:24 AM CDT

No, no, fucking ass no. I don't care how ridiculous someone's comment is--until we stop flagging them we are no better than the people writing them. Dammit. Just ignore them it they bother you. Free Speech doesn't mean true speech it just means any speech. You want to grow into humans who can survive and deal with other countries having the means to deliver a bomb to your door? Start by not giving a shit what anyone writes here, Then, we can focus on the important stuff--like Seattle not getting a nuke from a cargo ship.

IN RESPONSE:

dontlikenobody
Sep 17, 09 6:45 PM CDT

Troll warning. No responses, please. Just thumb him off.

IN RESPONSE:

zackmasson
Sep 18, 09 4:43 AM CDT

At least they can name the first president. Lol Those farmers are dumb as rocks to0, signing up with Monsanto is like committing suicide.

| 0 minutes ago

chamisi
Sep 17, 09 7:02 PM CDT

look at a Jay walking segment this lack of knowledge is widespread ..........kids are stupid Reply

| 0 minutes ago

cornelison
Sep 17, 09 8:53 PM CDT

Oklahoma. Sen. Inhoff doesn't believe in global warming. It's a state with a high risk of tornadoes. How do voters know who to vote for if they don't understand what the two largest parties represent? The tea baggers don't even understand the issues that they are protesting against. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

hughchi
Sep 17, 09 9:16 PM CDT

To understand this phenomenon better, go to Youtube and check out Rick Mercer talking with Americans. Warning, knowledge of a foreign country, i.e. Canada, is necessary to 'get' the jokes. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

my-name-here
Sep 17, 09 11:40 PM CDT

Congrat's Canada, on switching to a 24 hour clock! That was pretty funny.

IN RESPONSE:

WallyEFunk
Sep 18, 09 8:56 AM CDT

My cousins years ago, thought once U got to the boarder, there was snow and igloo's and our police all rode horses. What ever happened to those saturday morning filler cartoons. from them I learned how a bill was made into law. " I'm just a bill.Yes I'm only a bill and I'm sitting here on capital hill"

| 0 minutes ago

cornelison
Sep 17, 09 9:27 PM CDT

I agree with testing teachers. It's done in other countries. However, I wonder how much of a role that parents play in their childrens' education. I went to school in California and there were excellent teachers. In the 4th grade we debated about JFK vs. Nixon. We were also encouraged to do extra homework for better grades. Where are the taxes for public schools? Is that the problem? Reply

IN RESPONSE:

blackgrl
Sep 17, 09 10:22 PM CDT

but again, you're implying that most schools encourage critical thinking BEYOND mandatory state testing: that's just not happening. not when schools are worried about funding related to how their kids perform on test scores. not to mention when over 40 mil Americans can't do reading comprehension above the 5th grade level... well it's probably gonna take more than testing teachers to pull us out of this cultural decline. You need a Federal education system that provides BASIC educational regulations for every States, parents, teachers, and community - especially charter schools whom can hire ANYONE w/ little to no regulation. cause the fact is we are failing our kids.

| 0 minutes ago

Adapt-Overcome
Sep 17, 09 10:55 PM CDT

TWO REPUBLICAN STATES! NEED I SAY MORE....WELL OK I WILL. The Republicans continue to cut funding for education, so they can keep their party strong. It's a known fact that Republicans believe if they keep you dumb, they can control you and Arizona and Oklahoma just proved them correctly. How pathetic. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

BryanJ62
Sep 17, 09 11:24 PM CDT

A whopping 61% knew where the Atlantic Ocean was. Wow! Way to go! Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Deebles
Sep 18, 09 1:29 AM CDT

Yeah cool!! When the fricking north pole melts they'll know the name of the ocean that floods over their head. OK that was mean. I'm a bit surprised that they knew that. Ask them where Patagonia was.

| 0 minutes ago

Antiks
Sep 18, 09 2:49 AM CDT

After living in Oklahoma City for a year, this finding doesn't surprise me. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

zackmasson
Sep 18, 09 4:39 AM CDT

Starting population control in areas like this might be a good idea. lol Wow... maybe they should have asked their name and address to just make sure they weren't suffering from heavy metal poisoning. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

View all 77 comments »

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