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SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 2009

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the big plan

Beck Will Host Conventions
to Educate America

He's shifting toward political organizer, plans big DC rally

Nov 21, 09 5:06 PM CST
Matt Taibbi

Palin: Our First WWE Politician

Pick an asshole, any asshole, and she'll rock the house

8 hours, 34 minutes ago
Senate Democrats Clear
Health Care Hurdle, 60-39

Reid gets 60 votes to open full debate after Thanksgiving recess

Nov 21, 09 7:13 PM CST
analysis

Book Tour Shows Palin
Hitting a Nerve

'Going Rogue' phenomenon may foreshadow something bigger

4 hours, 32 minutes ago
Palin Pulls in Big Bucks
—for Democrats

'Going Rogue' boosts Dem fundraising to new high

Nov 21, 09 6:50 AM CST
who let the paranoids out?

46 Years After Kennedy, the Virus of Hate Is Back

Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert panders to dangerous paranoids

Nov 21, 09 9:08 AM CST
NO COMMUNION FOR YOU, MY SON

RI Bishop Disses
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Stance

Spat over Patrick's position on abortion escalates

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Billboard Links Obama to Jihad

Colo. car dealership wants this opinion heard

Nov 20, 09 8:42 PM CST
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Nov 20, 09 8:07 PM CST
TALK SHOW ROUNDUP

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editorial

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Neglected Ind. Fans Boo Palin

Hecklers accuse her of 'quitting on the job'

Nov 20, 09 3:50 PM CST

|NEXT STORY »

90% Want to Outlaw Texting While Driving: Poll

Younger Americans slightly more tolerant, but 83% still in favor of ban

By Harry Kimball| Posted Sep 28, 09 11:11 AM CDT|

(Newser) – An overwhelming majority of Americans think texting while driving is such a bad idea it should be outlawed. A new poll finds that 90% of us support a ban; the most contrary demographic is, rather unsurprisingly, young'uns aged 18 to 29—though a robust 83% are in favor of a ban. And, CBS News points out, there’s no anti-cell phone bias: 90% of both mobile users and those who cling to landlines think your fingers should be glued to the wheel.

This is what happens. (AP Photo)

Charles Rombold texts a friend while standing next to his vehicle in Lawrence, Kan., Monday, April 28, 2008. (AP Photo/Orlin Wagner)

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11.20.09

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Sarah Palin Deserves Some More Attention

33 comments

VIEWING:

Timinator2K
Sep 28, 09 11:16 AM CDT

Texting while driving...very very deadly. Don't give a whit about the morons doing the texting, just their victims who die due to their stupidity. MADD needs to get in on this. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Fondue
Sep 28, 09 11:19 AM CDT

Sounds like a no brainer. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

JonmarkP
Sep 28, 09 12:37 PM CDT

90% are against it, the other 10% are already dead.

IN RESPONSE:

thejoint00
Sep 29, 09 11:42 AM CDT

I gave fondue and JonmarkP thumbs up!

| 0 minutes ago

Bambi
Sep 28, 09 11:28 AM CDT

Both hands on the wheel? I routinely drive with one hand on the wheel only. If that were really the problem, then they'd have to outlaw manual transmission. The problem is not hands/fingers distracted, it's eyes distracted. If focusing on that as the real problem, then the logical extension of this exercise would be that since we have to look at the car radio to change stations, we should not be allowed to do that either while driving. And even when just dialing the phone for a legal-in-the-car headset calls, one engages the keypad, and this could look to police like texting. Giving highway patrol and police just another opportunity to invade our privacy and further creative a profit motive for their 'justice' doesn't seem a good solution. Where does legislation end and personal responsibility begin? I'll bet the creative bloggers on Newser will have better ideas. How about it? Reply

-3

IN RESPONSE:

pwnage
Sep 28, 09 11:40 AM CDT

If I was hit by someone texting, I'd like to be able to use their phone records in court, if it came to that, and not have the fact they were texting mean nothing just because someone doesn't like police and thinks there should be no such law.

IN RESPONSE:

passinthru
Sep 28, 09 11:52 AM CDT

Great comment Bambi.

IN RESPONSE:

Bambi
Sep 28, 09 12:24 PM CDT

(Thanks for the kind words, passinthru) pwnage, this is addressed to you. If you are hit by someone, whether texting or not, you have all the rights and advantages in court that you will need without there being any extra 'under the influence of texting' jeopardy for the defendant. Under such circumstances, what extra bonus are you looking for in court that is worth giving police rights to profiteer off the invasion of our privacy. I think young kids and dogs provide much more dangerous distractions in cars than does careful cel phone use. Think about it and think about freedom for a second. Your whole philosophy here is based around what extra you might be able to get in a lawsuit. Is that what America and all our freedom talk has come to--the willingness to trade liberties for profiteering opportunities?

IN RESPONSE:

Wills
Sep 28, 09 2:05 PM CDT

You ask the question, where does legislation end and personal responsibility begin? As a libertarian, I think the obvious answer is when what you do harms someone else. I'm not so naive as to think this is a clear rigid line; my speech may offend you, I may crash my car that I am in control of into you. In the first case, the balance so obviously weighs in favor of my right to speak that it isn't even worth talking about, but it should be noted that choosing your words is a matter of personal responsibility. In the second, it nearly always weighs against. We don't want to leave random people's lives up to other people's personal responsibility, so we pass laws against DUI's and speeding, etc. Even though clear morality should be our first criterion for these kinds of issues, sometimes we have to defer to pragmatics. In this case, the real question is not whether we're giving the police more unnecessary power, its how bad texting is for your driving (apparently really really bad), and how much effect making it illegal will have (a lot less clear to me)

IN RESPONSE:

Bambi
Sep 28, 09 2:30 PM CDT

Wills, well said; thanks for that great post. If law enforcement culture hadn't become so corrupt in recent decades, I would have little problem agreeing with you entirely. But the reality of the corruption of this agency has to increasingly factor into the equation as we give them more and more authority to exploit the public for profit, and to apply their racial, classist and other biases to certain enforcements. We sort of have a devil on either end of this problem. I hope everybody that has one opinion or the other realizes that. It shouldn't just be civil libertarians concerned about this. This is a fundamental freedom issue. Being alive is risky, and you can only preempt so much of that risk before you are changing our status from 'free' as a people.

IN RESPONSE:

Bryanw55
Sep 28, 09 3:28 PM CDT

I don't know exactly, Bambi, but this ain't the same as being able to choose between buckling up or not, that only effects yourself and which I definitely believe crosses the line. Since texting is at least as dangerous as driving under the influence, are you saying that it should be legal for me to drive after downing a six pack? I ride a motorcycle much of the time, another personal choice, and I can safely say that 90% of the people who have almost hit me,whether in my car or on my bike, have at the least had a cell phone pinned to their ear, and texting is far more distracting. Hell, I think that all drugs and prostitution should be legal, but texting while driving, no way. Now, I would say it would be fine with me that if you want to text while driving, then you must be riding a motorcycle when you do. Then truly the only person likely to die would be the person doing the wrong thing.

IN RESPONSE:

Bambi
Sep 28, 09 5:28 PM CDT

Everything you say sounds reasonable to me, and I'm going to say that I agree with all of it with a caveat. My issue is not with whether texting is unsafe or not, for clearly it is risky like drunk driving (as you point out). My issue is with giving authority to the police to profit by any new prohibition that are not in inherent violation (in other words, reckless driving is already law-violating, but texting is only sometimes linked to recklessness on a case-by-case basis. However, it is being advocated that it be made illegal whether or not it is contributing to recklessness.) Nevertheless, I would agree with you about making texting by cel phone illegal if instead of law enforcement writing tickets with direct monetary penalties (profit motive is a disgusting conflict of interest for law enforcement), cops apply some kind of 'point' against your driving record. Say, 3 to 5 points in any year (or 7 points in any two years, or whatever) would be cause to have your licence suspended. Driving with a suspended license, then, if it comes to that, could require impounding of one's vehicle and/or jail time. I hesitate to contribute any legislation to the profit incentive of law inforcement, PARTICULARLY when it has some conflict with matters of personal freedoms. There's really no need for fines. If drivers are dangerous, they should be put off the road with suspended licenses, not made incrementally broke while being sent back out on the road time-and-time again! (This ticketing for money thing is just a disguised form of taxation without representation.)

| 0 minutes ago

Forderon
Sep 28, 09 11:42 AM CDT

This would be socialism. I say let the magical free market decide. People should have the "personal responsibility" to avoid accidents with citizens that are practicing their freedom. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Sep 28, 09 11:48 AM CDT

Forderon is correct. This would impede on corporation's rights to make money. We should outlaw "victims" of texters the ability to sue, or at least cap how much they can sue for. How much is a person worth these days anyway?

-1

| 0 minutes ago

Forderon
Sep 28, 09 12:00 PM CDT

By the way, between 65-80% of Americans want the public OPTION, but you won't see it included in the health care bill because the corporations have successfully overthrown Congress. And yet, we have people on the right actually defending these corporations' right to ruin their lives. So, a ban on texting while driving? Keep dreaming. We can't even fight for our own health. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

WallyEFunk
Sep 28, 09 12:23 PM CDT

Double thumbs up.

| 0 minutes ago

serfinWI
Sep 28, 09 12:41 PM CDT

Just outlaw all idiot drivers. Those that don't use their turn signals and cut in front of you, and especially those rubber neckers that slow down traffic to gawk. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Timinator2K
Sep 28, 09 12:42 PM CDT

Changing the radio, eyes sometimes slightly distracted but, no concentration...shift gears, no concentration...getting fully engaged in a texting, TOTALLY distracting with FULL concentration. BLAM!, six teenage girl cheerleaders crushed DEAD in a mini-van because their driver veered into the on-coming lane right into an 18-wheeler while texting her friends IN the vehicle. Texting behind the wheel, definitely worth it for freedom from law enforcement, eh, Bambi? Twit. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Wills
Sep 28, 09 2:26 PM CDT

Geeze did you miss a nap or something? He was trying to make a legitimate point about balancing rights. The stuff about police profiteering is kinda nonsense, but "Where does legislation end and personal responsibility begin?" is actually an interesting question. What if the driver was distracted because she was eating? Should that be banned (actually I think it might be in Germany)? What if she was pissed because her boyfriend dumped her, or distraught because her mom just died? Should we have a breathalyzer like device for emotions installed in our ignitions? Since it's possible to replace "texting" in your post with just about anything else distracting, your point doesn't really answer any questions, and definitely doesn't give you a right to be a dick.

IN RESPONSE:

Bambi
Sep 28, 09 2:58 PM CDT

Thanks again, Wills, but the often amusing Timinator2K is beyond reach today. He doesn't realize that freedom may come with a price (risks among them). Remember 'give me liberty or give me death?' I don't think he is remembering that today. A very high price has been paid for freedom, and if a van full of cheerleaders is part of that price, I regret it, but would still ALWAYS think twice before yielding freedoms. The timid and fearful should not be establishing the maximal freedom standard of this country.

IN RESPONSE:

Bryanw55
Sep 28, 09 3:37 PM CDT

Bambi, would you have a problem with me pulling out my 9mm and blowing the tires off a car that swerved dangerously toward me for whatever reason? Just practicing self and property defense.

IN RESPONSE:

Bambi
Sep 28, 09 4:13 PM CDT

Ummm, is that a trick question? A moving vehicle with blown out tires is more dangerous than a moving vehicle with a texting driver. Any situation that gives you enough time to pull out your 9mm would also allow the time to instead merely commandeer your vehicle defensively to avoid an accident. Since the anti-texter argument seems to be interested in minimizing dangers, I find your question quite confusing. Naturally, common sense and I will agree that you should handle such a situation defensively, not agressively. By the way, some of us may be forgetting that reckless driving is already against the law (we don't need texting law to establish that). I would consider it more germane to our debate about texting specifically if you asked me "am I entitled to shoot someone's tires whose car is not swerving recklessly, but who is texting in the driver's seat". To that, I would obviously say "no". What, then, is the point of your question in relation to this debate?

| 0 minutes ago

Wills
Sep 28, 09 3:50 PM CDT

Here's an interesting question: how many of those 90% text while driving? I bet you its a lot. The easy route here, the one that everyone seems to take, is to say something like "all american's are hypocrites, people are stupid" or "maybe we shouldn't ban it then". Both responses miss something important; the human experience is characterized by cognitive dissonance about how we want the world to be, and how we act. It's so common as to be cliched (how many times have you heard that talk the talk/walk the walk bit?), and yet people are content to just point it out, rant a bit, and let it go. Not to pick on him, but look at Forderon's last post. He draws a parallel to the HC debate, complains a bit, and goes back to the stock "its the corporations" excuse. Listen to me everyone: we are not going to figure this shit out if we knee-jerk to blaming corporations, the government, or every random person (except ourselves, our family, and our friends of course). Most people know that driving while texting is dangerous, and yet many (most?) do it anyway. If you ask them, they say it should be banned. They probably even say there should be fines. Are they saying they should be fined themselves? Probably not. Now, just as an exercise, try thinking about why that happens, not with an emphasis on "blame" but with one on "explain". Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Bambi
Sep 28, 09 4:14 PM CDT

Another great post, Wills.

IN RESPONSE:

Bryanw55
Sep 28, 09 5:43 PM CDT

That was my second reply to you Bambi. The more serious one was above. The one you replied to was a direct response to the "sorry if 6 kids have to die once in a while" line of argument. I too put freedom above safety, but texting while driving is not the equivalent of say, a law abiding citizen owning a gun. It is the equivalent of a citizen owning a gun and not having a problem with them firing it at random as they drive down the road. I would argue that driving while texting or without a hands free phone is wreckless driving in itself, just as driving with 6 drinks under your belt is wreckless driving. Just because you happen to be between the lines part of the time makes it no less dangerous to others. I am against a huge amount of our laws that give police too much power, drugs of any kind being illegal is one of them, helmet and seatbelt laws as well; but texting while driving is playing russian roulette with someone else's life, as well your own. By the time someone realizes that it is not such a smart thing to do, it is far too likely that it is another person who will suffer from the lack of judgment than the person who was responsible for the lack of judgment. That is where I have a problem with it.

IN RESPONSE:

Bambi
Sep 28, 09 5:52 PM CDT

Bryanw55, I think we are in agreement. II'm a little confused about the sequence of the dialogue--I did respond to the post down here before the one above because that's the order in which I saw them. Sorry about the mix-up. Please see the response I left to your post above, and let me know if we still have a disagreement in principle. (your post makes me think you didn't see that one.)

| 0 minutes ago

Bryanw55
Sep 28, 09 5:52 PM CDT

By the way, I am with you all the way if you want to eliminate drug laws, SWAT teams used except under the most dire of circumstances, no knock warrants, and indiscriminate search of vehicles without a warrant, random pull overs, as well as laws of personal choice. It is my opinion that these actions are the ones that have allowed police to overstep their boundaries in a far worse way. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Bambi
Sep 28, 09 6:00 PM CDT

I think we are really agreeing so much as to risk boring everyone else reading this blog! Sorry about that!

IN RESPONSE:

Bryanw55
Sep 28, 09 8:33 PM CDT

Yes, we were definitely typing at the same time. Have a good evening.

| 0 minutes ago

freethemall
Sep 28, 09 5:54 PM CDT

Not only should texting while driving be made illegal, it should be dealt with in the same way as reckless driving, which is operating a vehicle in a manner so as to be in willful or wanton disregard to the safety of yourself and (or) others. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

oldgoat
Sep 29, 09 2:13 AM CDT

Not only should the texting, but cell phone use while driving should be banned. We don't allow drunk drivers to drive legally and even the cell phone use while drivng has shown that it is on the level of drunk driving. If you want to be paranoid about your privacy I feel sorry for you, but if I have a accident or get hurt because some idiot is texting then I have every right to prove that they are. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

thejoint00
Sep 29, 09 11:56 AM CDT

there are a group of people who are using blue paintballs to make thier point against drivers using thier cellphones. usually 3 quick rounds are enough to get a drivers attention, but still leave them clueless about what happened until they get out of thier car. The point of it is that the drivers are so distracted they don't know what's going on around them. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

charles.mike
Sep 29, 09 12:51 PM CDT

I recently came across a blog post in consumer reports about a new free mobile phone application to help combat distracted driving called DriveSafe.ly that reads your texts and emails to you while you are driving. It looked pretty interesting so I tried it. I have a BlackBerry and it has really helped me when I’m on the road because it keeps me from texting while driving. It works through my Bluetooth and it can actually send an auto-response to the sender. I’ve had some fun with customizing the auto-response messages. I’m not that technical but it’s easy to use. I recommend people checking out www.DriveSafel.y. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

View all 33 comments »

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90% Want to Outlaw Texting While Driving: Poll

Younger Americans slightly more tolerant, but 83% still in favor of ban

Teens Cop to Texting and Driving—But Say Dad's Worse

No age limit for bad behavior behind wheel

MORE ABOUT:
driving • GPS • texting • teenage drivers • driver distraction • reckless driving • bad example

NYC to Ban All
Cabbie Phone Calls

Even hands-free devices will be a no-go under new rules limiting electronics

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Federal Workers Banned
From Texting While Driving

Executive order is part of larger push against distracted driving

MORE ABOUT:
Barack Obama • driving • text message • texting • driver distraction • reckless driving • Ray LaHood

cell phones • driving • ban • texting • opinion polls • mobile phones • outlaw

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90% Want to Outlaw Texting While Driving: Poll

Younger Americans slightly more tolerant, but 83% still in favor of ban

Related Newser Stories

Teens Cop to Texting and Driving—But Say Dad's Worse

No age limit for bad behavior behind wheel

MORE ABOUT: driving • GPS • texting • teenage drivers • driver distraction • reckless driving • bad example

NYC to Ban All Cabbie Phone Calls

Even hands-free devices will be a no-go under new rules limiting electronics

MORE ABOUT: New York City • cell phones • Bluetooth • taxi driver • regulations • mobile phones • hands-free cell phone • rule

Federal Workers Banned From Texting While Driving

Executive order is part of larger push against distracted driving

MORE ABOUT: Barack Obama • driving • text message • texting • driver distraction • reckless driving • Ray LaHood

cell phones • driving • ban • texting • opinion polls • mobile phones • outlaw

MOST POPULAR STORIES

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from our news partners

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MORE ABOUT:
driving • GPS • texting • teenage drivers • driver distraction • reckless driving • bad example

NYC to Ban All
Cabbie Phone Calls

MORE ABOUT:
New York City • cell phones • Bluetooth • taxi driver • regulations • mobile phones • hands-free cell phone • rule

Federal Workers Banned
From Texting While Driving

MORE ABOUT:
Barack Obama • driving • text message • texting • driver distraction • reckless driving • Ray LaHood