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OPINION

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Nov 24, 09 1:14 PM CST
DAVID FRUM

Pundits Lie, Numbers Don't:
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Fading Hope
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Cancer May Have Killed FDR

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MICHELLE MALKIN

Blindingly White MSNBC Guilty of Hypocrisy

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deja vu

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India, DC,
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GOP, Dems rub elbows with movie stars, media types

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Obama: I'll 'Finish the Job'
in Afghanistan

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MAUREEN DOWd

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OPINION

Afghan Rift? It's Just 'Smoke and Puffery'

McCain, others inflate controversy so Obama looks weak: Klein

By Kevin Spak| Posted Oct 8, 09 12:45 PM CDT|

(Newser) – There’s been much consternation recently about the supposed break between the White House and Stanley McChrystal over strategy in Afghanistan. But it’s really all “smoke and puffery,” a political ruse perpetrated by John McCain and some neocon compatriots, writes Joe Klein in Time. The furor has centered over McChrystal’s statement that a counterterrorism strategy would be “shortsighted.” But Obama has already told congressional leaders essentially the same thing.

The neocons are portraying the military’s “all-in” option of sending 40,000 more troops as the only outcome generals could countenance. In reality, McChrystal offered Obama three options, with 40,000 at the high-end and 10,000 at the low. Obama will almost certainly take the low or middle recommendation. Forgotten in all this is the rest of McChrystal’s London speech, which was a wonderfully honest assessment of the challenges in Afghanistan. “When I am asked what approach we should take,” the general said, “I say humility.”

A US Army delegation with Gen. Stanley McChrystal arrives at the German base in Kunduz to tour the site where villagers reportedly died in a US airstrike, Sept. 5, 2009. (AP Photo/Anja Niedringhaus)

General Stanley McChrystal delivers a speech in London, Thursday, Oct. 1, 2009. (AP Photo/Kirsty Wigglesworth)

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39 comments

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Adapt-Overcome
Oct 8, 09 12:59 PM CDT

John McCain can spout all the crap he wants, but we all know that John McCain was a worthless soldier, he cost the taxpayers lots of $$$$ with his carelessness and crashing government planes. Not attending meetings and classes ---instead whoring around and drinking. And now he wants to become the voice of reason when it comes to the lives of our troops. And let us not be to quick to forget that he broke the military rule of name, rank and serial number and took the oath when captured against his country. We need an informed decision, not a HOT HEAD decision. We had those for 8 years and look at the mess we are in. Democrats need to remember, that Obama ran on getting the troops out of Iraq and taking the fight to the Taliban in Afgahnastan and that is where we are and that is what YOU voted on. Reply

-2

IN RESPONSE:

RobN
Oct 8, 09 1:26 PM CDT

Pretty judgmental for a guy who didn't spend years with bamboo shoots under your fingernails. Seriously, trash his politics if you want but to question how good a soldier he was after years in captivity is pathetic.

IN RESPONSE:

godawgs
Oct 8, 09 1:36 PM CDT

yeah i kind of have to go with Robn on this one. Just because you don't like his politics don't talk about his sacrifice, and for the record John McCain was a sailor.

IN RESPONSE:

Spudsy
Oct 8, 09 1:46 PM CDT

I can't even read the rest of your post. There are no worthless soldiers in the US military. They have all sacrificed so that you can write crap like that first sentence. You should be ashamed of yourself. I try to be even tempered with everyone on this site including Timinator and the other right wingers but I will be bold enough to speak for everyone else on this site that was made possible be countless sacrifices since 1776 and tell you to go to hell.

IN RESPONSE:

Rocket448
Oct 8, 09 3:10 PM CDT

The McCain apologists need to take a break. Everything Adapt has said is only the truth (except that John McCain was in the Navy, having graduated 894th of 899). He was a hotheaded sailor who played the "daddy" card several times in order to keep flying after wrecking 4 planes. His run-ins with superiors are all well-documented, and his career was all fun no substance until he was taken prisoner. That this man, John McCain, should parlay his experience in POW camps into political gold stinks of favoritism and opportunism. The only reason he's in the Senate is that the money his second wife brought to the table was enough to oil the political machinery. I say; enough of McCain already. His patriotism is no more heroic than mine is, and his knowledge of military strategy can't hold a candle to that of any general officer. I can't think of a single thing I would trust John McCain with. I don't think anyone else should trust him, either.

IN RESPONSE:

Cprizzle
Oct 8, 09 3:21 PM CDT

While I somewhat understand what you're saying, I agree with these folks. Maybe he wasn't your ideal soldier in terms of grades and behavior, but don't brush off what he went through so lightly. None of us can fathom that. Now, as for his politics - I can't say I care for them.

IN RESPONSE:

Nelstorm
Oct 8, 09 1:31 PM CDT

1) Um...learn to multiply, please. 2) He's effectively ceased the sinking of this Titanic after it hit the iceberg 'Bush', hopefully he'll start pulling it up now. 3)Yet 4)Wars that he didn't start, and that we were losing before January.

IN RESPONSE:

godawgs
Oct 8, 09 1:41 PM CDT

@netstorm I think that point one was based off a prediction that would take place based on which health care bill was passed. I don't think that the debt has tripled, and I don't think that it will. The jury is still out on the stimulus and whether it saved us or not. We as a country did just shed another 500,000 jobs. I personally don't think that the stimulus worked and since a great majority over it has yet to be spent, then the President can't really take any credit for the economy starting to correct itself. The 3 million jobs was supposed to be done by the end of this year if I recall the chatter when the stimulus was getting pushed, and I thin that the President found out that things were worse off then the thought. We were winning in Iraq in January, and as much as the left hates it the surge did work. Now that strategy might not work in Afghanistan but we won't know that.

IN RESPONSE:

pwnage
Oct 8, 09 1:45 PM CDT

You might have something there - my grass was greener Last F'ing year! Must be that suckified Balack Hoosane

-1

IN RESPONSE:

polstroad
Oct 8, 09 1:48 PM CDT

Your intemerate language a fair indication of the level of your education and intelligence. Obama is losing two \wars/ who started them? and how is he losing what Bush started? Why not blame our military? ah, no. grow up.

-3

IN RESPONSE:

MrsK
Oct 8, 09 1:56 PM CDT

And they think bringing up Bush will give them an ounce of credibility. That's such a tired old game and liberals do suck ass.

-5

IN RESPONSE:

Nelstorm
Oct 8, 09 2:15 PM CDT

@godawgs - His words seemed different to me, but if we agree on their lack of validity...cool. Second, analysts have expressed that the downward trend of the economy has ended (look where the DOW is! Almost 10,000!), do I think it was solely BO? No, but he deserves some credit. But if it was still going down, the Republicans would be blaming him for it. Third, if indeed those jobs were supposed to be created by the end of '09, I shall concede the point, I do not know that particular issue. Finally, we are losing in Afghanistan. We could fix it, but it's not BO's fault that we aren't winning yet. Iraq? Historically, installed governments usually collapse within 5-10 years of the installing country's exit. We'll call it a victory 10 years from our exit, if it's still up. You seem to be someone I wouldn't mind having a friendly debate with, but some of the people here...I'm going to take my shots at them.

IN RESPONSE:

odowd80
Oct 8, 09 2:31 PM CDT

The Obama administration couched the stimulus package with the language "create or save 3 million jobs." So it is not fair to say they promised the creation of 3 million jobs. Nelstrom is exactly right about the Dow. Back in March when the Dow was tanking Conservative's collective finger was pointing at Obama. Now that its been on a steady climb to 10000, conservatives dismiss it as meaningless and blame Obama for continued job losses. I have never understood what conservatives expect from Obama in terms of job creation. Obama can't create jobs without spending money, which conservatives are automatically against unless its military spending. So I suppose he could get conservative support to triple the military budget to create jobs?

IN RESPONSE:

odowd80
Oct 8, 09 2:33 PM CDT

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. When conservatives stop blaming Clinton, I'll stop blaming Bush 8 years from that day.

IN RESPONSE:

godawgs
Oct 8, 09 2:39 PM CDT

@nel we can debate the validity of the first point because I think that is a sean hannity special if I am not mistaken. now you can take that how you want. I think that we have won in Iraq but time will tell what the government will turn out to be or if they are still a country in 10 years as you point out. The war in Afghan while the President didn't start it, he has to finish it some how. He has clamined that it the good fight and a vital war. Now comes the hard part for him, because no matter how he does it he is going to be sending people to die. Since the surge was successful there is a push to do that again, but the terrain and the enemy is different Afghan. Also if the general on the ground isn't asking for that type of approach you have respect his opinion. I agree with the summary and the President will send in somewhere between 10 and 20 thousand troops. The economy is starting to recover, I just think that it is the natural market cycle. The President's plan was the stimulus which we haven't even spent 20% of yet. I just don't' think that he can take that much credit for any recovery until we have enacted his plan, and on that same note he shouldn't take all of the blame. Now if in 4 years we are having the same talk, then he can take all of the blame and credit for all the recovery, but I hope that we are not still having this same talk in 4 years.

IN RESPONSE:

godawgs
Oct 8, 09 2:42 PM CDT

@odo how is not fair to hold them to what they said? That was one of the selling points of the package. Now I think that his administration used the best possible scenario possible when they made the claims, but he still made them on more then one occasion.

IN RESPONSE:

odowd80
Oct 8, 09 2:45 PM CDT

How can you prove that the stimulus package hasn't created 3 million jobs? How can you definitively say the stimulus didn't create 3 million while the private sector laid off 4 million?

IN RESPONSE:

Nelstorm
Oct 8, 09 2:48 PM CDT

@go - At this point I think we just cross our fingers and hope the people in charge make good decisions in the face of these complex problems.

IN RESPONSE:

godawgs
Oct 8, 09 2:49 PM CDT

@odo come on you are smarter then that, when are shedding 500,000 on a good week....Please tell me that you are not on the "create or save" train?

IN RESPONSE:

godawgs
Oct 8, 09 2:50 PM CDT

@nel we do, and you hope that the President listens to the people in the JC's and the general on the ground and we move from there.

IN RESPONSE:

odowd80
Oct 8, 09 2:52 PM CDT

@godawgs: My point is that Obama specifically used the language "create or save" so that the success of the Stimulus would be difficult to judge. Given the amount of uncertainty about the economy at the time, its hard to blame him.

IN RESPONSE:

godawgs
Oct 8, 09 2:54 PM CDT

@odo you might be the first liberal to admit that so for that I will give you a thumbs up.

IN RESPONSE:

freethemall
Oct 8, 09 6:08 PM CDT

If you argue with a fool, you become one. Please don't respond to such garbage.

-1

| 0 minutes ago

cornelison
Oct 8, 09 1:15 PM CDT

The war mentality has taken its toll on the soldiers. Are they really dying for their own country or some elses? Reply

IN RESPONSE:

onebadc20
Oct 8, 09 1:55 PM CDT

America is not our (us citizens) country anymore, it belongs to all the illegals that you liberals bend over to please.

-5

IN RESPONSE:

odowd80
Oct 8, 09 2:47 PM CDT

@onebad: Yes, I'm sure Mexican immigrants have a vested interest in Iraq and Afghanistan. Your comment doesn't make any sense.

IN RESPONSE:

Bryanw55
Oct 8, 09 4:47 PM CDT

better watch out onebadc20, with increasing amounts of money being sent from Mexico to relatives here hard hit by the economy, which is unprecedented, I wouldn't burn my bridges or build a wall to the place I may have to sneak into to make a living one day, if I were you.

IN RESPONSE:

cornelison
Oct 8, 09 8:17 PM CDT

The point I'm making is that we've seen American soldiers in the battlefields for 8 yrs. What have we gained? The reason why many Americans enlisted in 2001 was to get the terrorists who attacked America. Why should American soldiers die in Iraq when that was not supposed to be the target in the first place? The blame for this rests with the Bush Administration. Just bring those soldiers home.

| 0 minutes ago

polstroad
Oct 8, 09 2:22 PM CDT

When Kerry ran, the Right made a big thing accusing him of selling out or not being a vet worthy of his medals. That swiftboating was a lie but that was ok, right? So now to say anything bad about McCain as serviceman (see his record before he became POW), he is an untouchable? what is good for the goose is good for the gander. You don't like your team being badmouthed? Then do not badmouth the other team. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

odowd80
Oct 8, 09 2:50 PM CDT

Very true, Republicans seem to have a double-standard when it comes to attacking a man's service to the country. Unless RobN, godawgs, and Spudsy are willing to say that John Kerry served honorably and earned his medals, they're being the worst kind of hypocrites.

IN RESPONSE:

godawgs
Oct 8, 09 2:51 PM CDT

@odo I will say it, wasn't that book done by Jerome Corsi as well?

| 0 minutes ago

Derni
Oct 8, 09 2:26 PM CDT

If we would pend our money $$$ on our own people and use the menthod of attach that Israel does we'd be better off-its time for war hawks to realize money is limited and we can't be Big Brother to the world-we feed our own-give medicalk care to our own and help out but not with troops-we'd save a lot of money-and in 30 40 years all the countries that hate us will be comin our way for water and food once fglobal warming hits and they won't get over here-so stop funding wars and protect the needs of americans by spending money in our country Reply

| 0 minutes ago

LibertyMan
Oct 8, 09 3:01 PM CDT

Create or Save 3 million jobs??? Is that the new party line from the left? Are we going to hear less and less about CREATE and more and more about SAVE, which any economist will say is not measureable but easily claimable by the left? Are we supposed to forget that BO said 3.5 millins NEW jobs for months before he changed it to 3 million created or SAVED? Just like the sliding No New Tax pledge for people making under 300k, no, 250k, no, 200k, no, 150 k to now, well we didn't mean ALL taxes.....liberals cannot help themselevs from taxing, spending and surrendering our national soverignity. Its in their nature like the scorpion. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

odowd80
Oct 8, 09 3:46 PM CDT

I'll take "tax and spend" Democrats over "borrow and spend" conservatives any day.

| 0 minutes ago

foodchain11
Oct 8, 09 3:03 PM CDT

Hello, neo-cons? Repeat this until you memorize it: Bush started both wars. He chose to forget the important one (where al qaeda was/is. McCain was not a good soldier. He was a good prisoner. He did not show good judgement or skills when he served in the Navy and he still doesn't. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

godawgs
Oct 8, 09 5:20 PM CDT

You are right on one point in this, and that is that John McCain was not a good soldier. He was a good Sailor.

IN RESPONSE:

brutaltruth
Oct 9, 09 6:56 PM CDT

"Bush started both wars"? I don't recall neo-cons flying airplanes into the Twin Towers, Pentagon, and Pennsylvania. Seems like your politics get in the way of common sense.

-1

| 0 minutes ago

Rocket448
Oct 8, 09 3:21 PM CDT

I've said it before and I'll say it again: anyone who wants a democratic form of government with the freedoms we cherish, has to fight for it. We can't hand it over. It has to be won the same way we obtained our freedom to be democratic - with the blood and struggle of patriots. I say we should support all democratically elected governments, but we should *never* create them. We must cherish democratic movements in every country in which they spread but we must *never* use our power to create an opportunity for elections and democracy. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

brutaltruth
Oct 9, 09 7:16 PM CDT

Well said.

| 0 minutes ago

View all 39 comments »

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Afghan Rift? It's Just 'Smoke and Puffery'

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Afghan Rift? It's Just 'Smoke and Puffery'

McCain, others inflate controversy so Obama looks weak: Klein

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Report: Obama Will Send 34K Troops to Afghanistan

Prez finalized decision last night, will address nation next week

MORE ABOUT: Afghanistan • US military • Afghanistan war • President Obama • Afghanistan exit strategy • Stanley McChrystal

US, Afghans Recruit Taliban With Jobs

Drive will be similar to the 'Sons of Iraq' program

MORE ABOUT: Afghanistan • Taliban • insurgents • Hamid Karzai • Sons of Iraq • counterinsurgency • Stanley McChrystal

Backing Afghan Militias Makes NATO Allies Queasy

Experts worry $1.3B from US won't buy loyalty of local fighters

MORE ABOUT: Afghanistan • NATO • International Security Assistance Force • Afghan militias • Afghan police • Stanley McChrystal

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Report: Obama Will Send
34K Troops to Afghanistan

MORE ABOUT:
Afghanistan • US military • Afghanistan war • President Obama • Afghanistan exit strategy • Stanley McChrystal

US, Afghans Recruit
Taliban With Jobs

MORE ABOUT:
Afghanistan • Taliban • insurgents • Hamid Karzai • Sons of Iraq • counterinsurgency • Stanley McChrystal

MORE ABOUT:
Afghanistan • NATO • International Security Assistance Force • Afghan militias • Afghan police • Stanley McChrystal