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SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 2009

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the big plan

Beck Will Host Conventions
to Educate America

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Senate Democrats Clear
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Reid gets 60 votes to open full debate after Thanksgiving recess

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Matt Taibbi

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|NEXT STORY »

House Bill Adds Hate-Crime Coverage for Gays

Dems secure victory by attaching measure to defense funding measure

Posted Oct 8, 09 6:33 PM CDT|

(AP) – The House voted today to make it a federal crime to assault people because of their sexual orientation, significantly expanding the hate-crimes law enacted in the days after Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination in 1968. With expected passage by the Senate, and President Obama promising to sign the legislation, federal prosecutors will for the first time be able to intervene in cases of violence perpetrated against gays.

The measure is attached to a must-pass $680 billion defense policy bill; it prevailed 281-146, with 15 Democrats and 131 Republicans in opposition. "It's a very exciting day for us here in the Capitol," said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, noting that it's been 11 years since gay Wyoming college student Matthew Shepard, whose name was attached to the legislation, was murdered.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi arrives for her weekly news conference on Capitol Hill today. (AP Photo)

Nancy Pelosi speaks on Capitol Hill today. (AP Photo)

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41 comments

VIEWING:

Timinator2K
Oct 8, 09 6:36 PM CDT

Special laws for "special" people...GAAAAK!!!! ALL crimes are hateful...more un-required laws. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

riffran
Oct 9, 09 2:05 AM CDT

didn't George Carlin say that also...lol....at least I think it was him....but you are are right T2K....regardless of whether they are gay or straight...a crime is a crime

IN RESPONSE:

shonangreg
Oct 9, 09 5:19 AM CDT

Tim, you don't even demonstrate you understand the rationale behind hate-crime laws. You actually seem to be proudly doing the opposite, saying you don't understand them. Why don't you look it up and then come back here and make an informed post on what's wrong with the laws.

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 9, 09 5:59 AM CDT

I don't know any gays who think they are -- or want to be -- "special". Any specialness they might have is the result of their being singled out by irrational haters -- something that no one but the haters can control.

| 0 minutes ago

s19ma6
Oct 8, 09 6:39 PM CDT

Complete bullshit. Reply

-8

| 0 minutes ago

SilenceDogood
Oct 8, 09 6:46 PM CDT

What about white kids maimed and killed by black kids? Is this not a hate crime and a race crime? Reply

IN RESPONSE:

JonmarkP
Oct 8, 09 6:55 PM CDT

Wow, the Republicans are poised to come roaring back in 2010! New Quinnipack poll: "But Republicans get their lowest grades since Obama was elected on several measures: Voters disapprove 64 - 25 percent of the way Republicans in Congress are doing their job, with 42 percent of Republican voters disapproving; Only 29 percent think Republicans on Capitol Hill are acting in good faith; Voters trust Obama more than Republicans 47 - 31 percent to handle health care; Voters 53 - 25 percent have an unfavorable opinion of the Republican Party." But you'd never see Wolff post this data on Newser Loser.

IN RESPONSE:

JonmarkP
Oct 8, 09 6:56 PM CDT

What about ... (insert stupid comment here)?

IN RESPONSE:

freethemall
Oct 8, 09 7:07 PM CDT

Possibly so. Such laws apply regardless of race or ethnicity.

IN RESPONSE:

Snarfeh
Oct 9, 09 3:04 PM CDT

@silence - Hate crime laws already covered race. Anytime a white kid was killed by a black kid screaming epithets at the white kid about his being white, I'm sure the law was used and vice versa.

| 0 minutes ago

Deebles
Oct 8, 09 6:47 PM CDT

The Pentagon got 680 billion dollars which it must have. Oh, and you can't crucify a human being on a barbed wire fence anymore. But, sorry that human being can't be open in his or her humanness where that 680 billion is concerned. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Reader64481089
Oct 8, 09 6:53 PM CDT

I agree with the law in regards to "Hate Crime" status but I also view that any crime against one race by another should indeed be a hate crime and all viewed equally evil. That is to say Black, White, Yellow, Brown any and all are protected equally and all punished equally. Until that law is in effect it is not fair nor right.

IN RESPONSE:

Snarfeh
Oct 9, 09 3:08 PM CDT

@ reader - Hate crimes are for hate. If a black man killed a white man or vice versa for his wallet and no one heard him yell racial epithets during the killing or there was no other evidence the murder was related to the victim's race, it would not be a hate crime. Hate crime laws include race already, but the crime has to be a crime committed as a result of the victim's race in order for it to be a hate crime OR the actions or words of the killer must include evidence of his crime being related to a hatred of the victim's race.

| 0 minutes ago

Ucantusethatname
Oct 8, 09 7:23 PM CDT

The DemocRATS don't have enough real work to do. Pure nonsense and pandering. Don't forget to add fatties, little people, and ugly persons to the list. Share the anti-hate laws with all groups. Reply

-8

| 0 minutes ago

Galileo
Oct 8, 09 7:58 PM CDT

Certainly hate crimes should not exclude any race. But a key issue here is deterrence. It's common for people to say "what about white people?" I'm 100% sure hate crimes do occur against whites, but are you really trying to argue that whites are in as much danger as homosexuals of being the victim of a hate crime? I hope not. You'd have to be living under a rock to be unaware of how widespread hate/prejudice against gays is. Talking abstractly about "fairness" is nice, but first let's do what's necessary to protect a group that is publicly targeted by others. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Reader64481089
Oct 8, 09 8:31 PM CDT

What I am saying not arguing is all violent crimes against any race because of their race or sexual preference should be viewed equal, and the most severe punishments should go with all such crimes. A group of Black males kidnapped a young white couple, they held them for days torturing them, They made the young man watch as they raped the lady, they made the lady watch as they murdered the man. Next they continued to rape her, taking turns urinating on her, then they poured poision down her throat after they cut off one breast and then raped her again. They then attempted to burn her next stabbed her then finally shot her. Why? Because they hated Whites was the reason they gave when caught, you see they left her body in a trash can inside the house where they had done all this while one of the black males still lived there, they never took the time to dump her as they did with the male. Yes, I do not care how often, that is total b/s I care about one group focusing on another group and commit acts such as this out of hate. Thus all hate crimes should be equal in punishment.

IN RESPONSE:

kyleleitch
Oct 8, 09 9:02 PM CDT

Galileo, you have a great deal of clarity when it comes to this issue. Thumbs up to you! There are so many people who think exactly what you just said.

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 8, 09 9:12 PM CDT

"You'd have to be living under a rock to be unaware of how widespread hate/prejudice against gays is." Well, where did you think they'd slithered out from?

IN RESPONSE:

Reader64481089
Oct 8, 09 9:39 PM CDT

Here is the link to the story, it is covered in many places: http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=635

IN RESPONSE:

Galileo
Oct 9, 09 11:51 AM CDT

@Reader - You failed to understand my point. I was not trying to dispute the fact that all hate crimes should hold equal punishment. I agree with that. It seems to irritate you that gays are getting hate crime legislation and whites are not though, and this is what I am addressing. My point is that you should try to think about the issue more realistically. Dangerous prejudice against gays is widespread, this legislation will help protect them (hopefully). And yes it does matter (in the real world) how prevalent something is for a government to address it. I know YOU don't care how often it happens, neither do I, but realistically for action to take place, it matters. Also, try to refrain from employing pathos i.e. your graphic description of a hate crime. I get it, hate crimes are bad. Now back to the issue we're discussing.

| 0 minutes ago

cantfixthis
Oct 8, 09 8:38 PM CDT

Sodomites, once outlawed across the nation as perverse and wicked, are now being protected as a minority group. And those who love and believe the Bible as truth are now targeted as hatemongers and intolerant for preaching against such sinfulness. Isaiah 5:20 "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter." Reply

-5

IN RESPONSE:

kyleleitch
Oct 8, 09 9:04 PM CDT

Put your Bible away; there is no place for it here.

IN RESPONSE:

JonmarkP
Oct 8, 09 9:18 PM CDT

Oh, I understand you better now. A Bible thumper. You're not just blind, you're defective-I won't bother to engage with you in any dialogue.

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 8, 09 9:25 PM CDT

Do you feel the same way about football players? After all, the Bible disapproves just as much of those who touch the skin of a pig as it does of gays.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

cantfixthis
Oct 8, 09 9:36 PM CDT

Apples and oranges, Rocky. Violating Jewish ceremonial law cannot be compared to violating God's clear, unambiguous condemnation for homosexuality. And you know it. And footballs are made out of cowhide, by the way.

-6

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 8, 09 9:45 PM CDT

Nonono, you don't get to cherrypick based only on your irrational hatreds. The Bible uses the same language for both. It also, by the way, condemns hypocrisy.

IN RESPONSE:

cantfixthis
Oct 8, 09 9:53 PM CDT

Not cherry-picking, Rocky. Just laying out the facts. And fear of God's condemnation and eventual judgement of wickedness is perfectly rational. What is irrational is defending behavior that is condemned in the clearest terms then labeling those who believe it as hypocrites.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 8, 09 9:59 PM CDT

Sorry, but "fact" is not defined -- at least by sane people -- as "that which hate-filled hypocrites want to hear. The Bible calls for the same sanctions against people who touch or eat pigs that it does against homosexuals. You don't get to decide to ignore one and embrace (so to speak) the other, without being monumentally dishonest and hypocritical.

IN RESPONSE:

cantfixthis
Oct 8, 09 10:22 PM CDT

Rocky, your ignorance of the Bible, while amusing, does not excuse you from what it says. Do you have any facts to back up your statement? Anything beyond your imagination? Why don't you take some time and read before you spout. The truth will make you free.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

schmidtkoff
Oct 9, 09 2:36 AM CDT

i 2nd the motion kyle - @cant - keep in in your house of worship.

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 9, 09 4:26 AM CDT

Leviticus 20:13: If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:######## Leviticus 11:7: And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. 8: Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you. 9: These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. 10: And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: 11: They shall be even an abomination unto you

IN RESPONSE:

cantfixthis
Oct 9, 09 6:00 AM CDT

Rocky, again, your diligence has only found JEWISH LAW (Leviticus). Good job for at least trying. But the moral condemnation for sodomy began BEFORE the law (Gen 14 & 15), during the law (Leviticus), in the New Testament (Romans 1 and more). Why is that? Some things are condemned in every society because they are WRONG. And in this case, UNNATURAL and DESTRUCTIVE.

-2

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 9, 09 6:19 AM CDT

In other words, cantfixthis, you are, as I said, cherrypicking. Few people on earth are as disgusting as those who cherrypick their way through the Bible in order to reinforce their irrational hatreds and to preach hatred in the name of a G-d of Love. You would benefit from some serious self-examination, but of course you won't do that. When you meet St. Peter, I'm afraid you're in for a rude awakening.

IN RESPONSE:

cantfixthis
Oct 9, 09 8:04 AM CDT

Rocky, I will accept whatever judgement comes, but it won't be from Peter (or any man), but from God Himself. He has given us His commands and precepts, you have dismissed them by invoking a god of love. Unfortunately, your god doesn't exist. The true God has revealed Himself as Holy. Love, yes. Wrath against all ungodliness, yes. This may be disgusting, but it is true. And you are accountable to Him, as am I.

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 9, 09 8:48 AM CDT

Yes, your judgment will come from G-d, who's going to be quite upset that you took it upon yourself to ignore some of his commandments while accepting only those which reinforced your own hatred of His creations and allowed you to preach hatred in the name of a G-0d of love. You really should spend less time claiming to be Christian and more time following the teachings of Christ.

IN RESPONSE:

cantfixthis
Oct 9, 09 9:06 AM CDT

Hear then the teachings of Christ, "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. Life or wrath, Rocky. John 3:36

-2

IN RESPONSE:

skeptik
Oct 9, 09 9:19 AM CDT

"Blessed is the cheesemaker!"

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 9, 09 9:58 AM CDT

Oh, well, then, if we're going to accept something as absolute truth just because someone wrote it in a book, then Wilbur is "Some Pig".

| 0 minutes ago

cantfixthis
Oct 8, 09 9:19 PM CDT

And THAT is the problem. We do not like to retain God in our knowledge. We've become a law unto ourselves. And although we know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, we not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

armywife
Oct 8, 09 10:56 PM CDT

cantfixthis, what you "bible thumpers" fail to grasp is that america is not a country who passes religious laws, like the islamic theocracies in the middle east. because if we started to, where would it end? if we do decide to pass laws based on biblical belief, like making homosexual behavior criminal, then you are saying "f@ck you to all the americans who are NOT christian. you might argue that that's fine cause there are more christians, but what if one day islam outpaces christianity in america, which is very likely, and the new Muslim Majority decides to outlaw pork and alcohol and make it legal to marry 12 year olds? would that be okay with you? the only way we can safeguard our personal liberties is to safeguard everyone's personal liberties. this is why the separation of church and state is so crucial. it's too bad that people like you, cantfixthis, cant figure that out. it seems that you genuinely want america to become a christian theocracy, which is pretty effed up and frankly unconstitutional and inherently unAmerican. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Snarfeh
Oct 9, 09 3:14 PM CDT

I am surprised that anyone thinks hate crime laws do not already include race. The problem some of you are having is that you assume a crime committed by one race against another race is a racial crime. There are factors that determine whether the crime is a hate crime or not. Killing someone of a different race for his wallet and only for his wallet is not a hate crime. Screaming "You dirty (insert racial or nationalistic epithet here), fucking die, you lousy (insert racial or nationalistic epithet here)" while killing for the wallet can be viewed by law enforcement as a hate crime. It's not that hard to understand, folks. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

View all 41 comments »

Nancy Pelosi • House of Representatives • sexual orientation • defense policy bill • sexual violence • homosexual • Matthew Shepard • President Obama • hate crimes

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