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|NEXT STORY »

Israelis, Palestinians Skeptical of Obama Nobel

Israel fears prize will spur president to 'force-feed' them peace deal

By Rob Quinn| Posted Oct 10, 09 6:11 AM CDT|

(Newser) – President Obama won praise from Israeli and Palestinian leaders after yesterday's surprise Nobel Peace Prize win, but many others on both sides of the conflict expressed puzzlement and wariness. The decision is "very strange," said the speaker of Israel's parliament, adding that he hoped Obama wouldn't now feel he could "force-feed Israel with his version of peace." Obama's special envoy is currently in Israel trying to break a stalemate over freezing new West Bank settlements.

"This man has not accomplished anything to deserve this prize," wrote the editor of the official Palestinian Authority newspaper, adding sarcastically that the prize "may be an incentive for him to start working for peace." Israelis interviewed by the Los Angeles Times said they feared Obama might now actually be less motivated to work for peace, recalling the bloodshed that followed Yasser Arafat, Yitzhak Rabin, and Shimon Peres jointly winning the prize in 1994.

[Images (2)]

[Quotes (1)]

Two young Palestinian women walk past Israeli border police during clashes with Palestinian stone-throwers at the Kalandia checkpoint between the West Bank city of Ramallah and Jerusalem last week. (AP Photo/Bernat Armangue)

Israeli border police take position during clashes with Palestinian stone-throwers at the Kalandia checkpoint between the West Bank city of Ramallah and Jerusalem last week. (AP Photo/Bernat Armangue)

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Perhaps the prize will grant him more authority to make changes in world politics, but somehow I doubt it. - Gil Alon, a 37-year-old Israeli mathematician

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33 comments

VIEWING:

DarkFrancis
Oct 10, 09 6:23 AM CDT

Many of us are a little puzzled at Obama's Nobel win, even those who support him. Why we should care about the dubiety of the most dubious people on the planet, I have no idea. Yes, there are pro-Israel and pro-Palestine people out there...I fall firmly into the 'I don't much like anyone who plays atrocity poker' category. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

riffran
Oct 10, 09 7:14 AM CDT

"atrocity poker"....Now thats a new one...and an unsettlingly appropriate reference to the constant conflict there Reply

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 10, 09 10:26 AM CDT

Yes, Israel has a government, Sphinx, and one of the responsibilities of a government is to protect its citizens.

IN RESPONSE:

Sphinx
Oct 10, 09 10:51 AM CDT

...and to adhere to international standards of proper conduct, in war times and out.

| 0 minutes ago

RockyPneumonia
Oct 10, 09 7:18 AM CDT

It's easy to fall back on "a plague on both your houses". After all, that way, people don't have to bother staying informed. The fact is that the stated goal of the terrorists is to destroy Israel and kill every Israeli. the stated goal of Israel is to stay alive. therefore, the only way to be "even-handed" is to advocate killing "only" half the Israelis. Yes, there have been atrocities on both sides but, except for the actions of a few rogues -- and every country has those -- most of the Palestinian casualties have resulted from the terrorists' using schools, mosques, and apartment buildings as headquarters and bases. If an Israeli commander is forced to choose between attacking an apartment building or allowing rocket attacks on Israeli cities to continue unchallenged, she or he is going to choose the course that's NOT tantamount to national suicide. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

cantfixthis
Oct 10, 09 7:25 AM CDT

A thoughtful and logical argument.

IN RESPONSE:

Sphinx
Oct 10, 09 9:22 AM CDT

You make it sound like the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is a conflict between Israel and Hamas; what about all of the other Palestinians? Gaza has one of the highest population densities in the world and, with the blockade, Hamas has been funding everything in that strip for years. Of course Hamas owns the schools, mosques and homes. That doesn't make them bases. You also mentioned atrocities from both sides, but one of the sides you mentioned are supposed to be terrorists while the other is supposed to be an advanced GOVERNMENT. You can't compare the actions of one to the other. But you are right about one thing - It's important to stay informed.

IN RESPONSE:

shonangreg
Oct 10, 09 9:23 AM CDT

Israel's basic tactic is to take land from Palestinians -- period. Can you argue with that? Israel is the intruder and the occupier. It is only natural the people who live/lived there will fight back.

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 10, 09 9:53 AM CDT

No, Sphinx, what makes them bases is the fact that Hamas launches rockets from them. As for Hamas's supposedly "owning" them, when the Arabs controlled Gaza and the West Bank from 1948-1967, they built almost no infrastructure; they preferred, for political reasons, to keep the Palestinians in squalor. The roads, schools, hospitals, etc. were built after 1967 by Israel.

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 10, 09 10:09 AM CDT

shonagreg, I can argue with anything you say that's based -- as is everything you've said in this thread -- on false premises. The sum of your argument seems to be that the Israelis are agressors by virtue of their insisting on still breathing and that they should just allow their citizens to be murdered, without retaliating. The sad truth is that if the terrorists unilaterally stopped killng Israelis, the Israelis would stop retaliating (because there would be nothing to retaliate FOR, whereas if the Israelis unilaterally stopped striking at the people who order, plan and carry out murderous attacks on Israelis civilians, the terrorists would continue such attacks, since their goal is to kill Israelis, wheras the Israelis' goal is to be left alone. I know this isn't what you want to hear, for which I apologize, but that doesn't make it untrue.

IN RESPONSE:

shonangreg
Oct 10, 09 10:21 AM CDT

@Rocky, "The sum of your argument seems to be that the Israelis are agressors by virtue of their insisting on still breathing and that they should just allow their citizens to be murdered, without retaliating." No, Rocky, the base of my argument is that Israelis moved into Palestinian land and pushed the Palestinians out. You conveniently left the base of the argument out.

IN RESPONSE:

cantfixthis
Oct 10, 09 10:30 AM CDT

From The Charter of the Hamas, "There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. The initiatives, proposals and International Conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility. The Palestinian people are too noble to have their future, their right and their destiny submitted to a vain game." Hamas, as the leaders of the Gaza strip, do not want peace, but the destruction of Israel. I we follow shonangreg's argument, Israel is in the wrong for defending themselves. Hamas is in the right for attacking Israel.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 10, 09 10:34 AM CDT

By, "Sty informed," I mean with fact, not with Arab propaganda. Go to the library. Read the English-language newspapers -- both Israeli and Arab -- published from 1948-present.

IN RESPONSE:

Sphinx
Oct 10, 09 10:49 AM CDT

So if you support Israel you speak fact but if I support Palestine it's propaganda? Sorry, that's not how it works. Twist the facts around as much as you want, but "most of the Palestinian" casualties" have resulted from Israeli bullets, and if Abbas had more of a spine, Israel (a country supposedly interested in the peace process) and Hamas (who, depsite their talk, was adhering to a ceacefire with Israel before the Gaza attacks last year) would both be expected to account for their war crimes.

IN RESPONSE:

shonangreg
Oct 10, 09 10:52 AM CDT

Neither one of you addresses the basic point. You instead begin analysis as if Israeli's are living in their home surrounded by aggressors. Either Israel is an invader and an occupier or it is not. It does matter which is the case. ....................... If the Israelis are the invaders and occupiers, then they basically rule by force and give up all pretense that their action is noble in any way. They just want what someone else has and they use violence to take it from them. One of you PLEASE take issue with that statement . . . That or the Israelis use the "facts on the ground" now and negotiate the best deal they can with the ones whose land they stole. They can't pretend to be the noble party here, though. The Israelis are basically thieves who are just willing to not steal ALL of the Palestinians land. And you two applaud them for being such benevolent, gentlemanly thieves. And note, I am not anti-Jewish. I'm just not swayed by the PR Israel throws up on most of America -- and I'm not swayed by appeals of the Bible-thumping doomsday cultists who want to follow the Jews to Zion, or whatever it is exactly they think . . .

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 10, 09 10:59 AM CDT

I was trying to keep you from embarrassing yourself, shonangreg, since what you claim did not happen. Before 1948, the Jews bought the land from Arabs who were only too glad to sell, at inflated prices, land they considered useless. When the UN voted partition, with lines based on the demographics of the time, 7 Arab countries invaded. At the end of that war, Israel had slightly more land than was originally allotted to it, but the borders were more defensible. They probably could have withdrawn back to the original lines but now we're back to that inconvenient thing where the Israelis are unlikely to commit suicide just because you would find that more convenient.

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 10, 09 11:02 AM CDT

No, Sphinx, if I support Israel with data easily obtainable by reading the source material, including British and Arab contemporaneous accounts, it's fact, whereas if you support the Arabs with claims which entirely rely on the fact that you and Hamas WANT them to be true, it's Palestinian propaganda.

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 10, 09 11:05 AM CDT

Shonagreg, when Israel children are being blown apart in school buses and pizza parlors (here's where you embarrass yourself by pretending that Hamas does not secrete important bases and headquarters in apartments, schools and mosques) and when rockets are falling on Israeli cities, then, yes, the Israelis ARE living in their home surrounded by aggressors.

IN RESPONSE:

shonangreg
Oct 10, 09 11:40 AM CDT

Rocky, don't pretend to worry about me embarrassing myself. Just you stay on topic. So far I've been saying "this house is built on sand" and you insist on discussing how beautiful the window shades are and how structurally sound the roof is. These are all just diversions, even the pretend playing nice gesture. .............................. Israel paid? For what portion of current Israel proper did they pay? And what portion of the territorries thwey continue to expand upon now are they paying?

-1

IN RESPONSE:

shonangreg
Oct 10, 09 11:44 AM CDT

And Rocky says, "Shonagreg, when Israel children are being blown apart in school buses and pizza parlors (here's where you embarrass yourself by pretending that Hamas does not secrete important bases and headquarters in apartments, schools and mosques)" more distractions? Did I say that? Did I even imply that Hamas had not done such things? Maybe you're trying to be embarrassed yourself? .................................... I do admit you partially addressed the base issue. I know about the wars and the expansions of the borders to more defensible lines, but I want to know if you really think a substantial portion of Israel proper was legitimately bought from Palestinian owners.

IN RESPONSE:

emptycalm
Oct 10, 09 11:58 AM CDT

So how do you justify the IDF using white phosphorous on civilian targets? No matter what side you're on, that should be considered a war crime.

IN RESPONSE:

Sphinx
Oct 10, 09 3:11 PM CDT

Rocky, I do not support Hamas and, as with the Israeli government, I tend to distrust everything they say. You can debate, or you can just claim everything I say is propaganda, but you can't do both. What it comes down to is that you are comparing the actions of a group recognized as terrorists to a member nation of the UN (who btw, the IDF bombed during the offensive on Gaza).You are also implying that Hamas in its current state forms an existential threat to Israel, which is bullshit. Look at the Gaza war: 13 Israeli deaths, one from friendly fire, compared to over 1000 Palestinians, most of which were not combatants. I would never expect Israel to just accept rocket attacks coming from Gaza; what they should have done, according to the terms of the ceasefire they agreed to, was ease the blockade on the strip. They failed to do that and the rocket attacks resumed, leading both sides to commit war crimes.

IN RESPONSE:

northeast
Oct 13, 09 8:30 AM CDT

Hate to interrupt, but this is actually quite a civil argument on a fairly hot-button topic. Props to all involved.

| 0 minutes ago

polstroad
Oct 10, 09 7:22 AM CDT

Living in the middle east would make anyone skeptical of anyh peace talk. atrocity poker? nice. Now examine American wars since Viet Nam. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 10, 09 7:28 AM CDT

polstroad, atrocities was not part of American national strategy, just as they are not -- the uninformed claims of Israel haters notwithstanding -- part of Israeli national strategy. Contrast this with the Palestinians' aiming rockets at Israeli cities and blowing up Israeli teenagers in pizza parlors. If you're looking for an American parallel, you need to go back to the bombing of cities in WWII.

IN RESPONSE:

shonangreg
Oct 10, 09 9:28 AM CDT

Haters of Israel? Do you categorize as "haters of Israel" anyone who thinks Israel is an occupier and an intruder? Israel has taken, with *great violence* the heart of what it coveted. They'd love to just sit there and only fight when the Palestinians try to return to their land. And they would call it defense. The whole state of Israel is built on offense. Can you deny this?

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Sphinx
Oct 10, 09 9:36 AM CDT

Rocky if you want an American parallel, it's more like European pilgrims vs. Native Americans. The New World and Israel are idealistic concepts, but in both cases, people fleeing persecution decided to build their countries on top of existing societies and persecuted the natives in turn.

| 0 minutes ago

polstroad
Oct 10, 09 7:30 AM CDT

The paper seems not to have it right. In fact this is resp[onse from Israeli leadeers: http://story.israelherald.com/index.php/ct/9/cid/f81a4d9d561822ee/id/552446/cs/1/ Reply

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 10, 09 7:36 AM CDT

Argh. Obviously, that should have been "atrocities WERE not...."

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 10, 09 7:39 AM CDT

polstroad, why assume that Israelis -- who are amongst the most argumentative peoples on earth ("If you have two Israelis, you have three arguments") react monolithically? Doubtless some approve of the award and some do not.

| 0 minutes ago

QueenAlli
Oct 10, 09 8:47 AM CDT

AMAZING!!! The two parties that have contributed greatly to the fear that has enveloped this world have a problem with the prize being given to someone who is trying to fix THEIR problem. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Sphinx
Oct 10, 09 9:32 AM CDT

He's said some really important things about what needs to be done in the region, but nothing has been achieved yet. Granted, I think he expected a little more cooperation on the Israeli side. Netanyahu is making it impossible to make any deals while Abbas has basically done everything the US has asked of him... not because he's so into peace, but because he's a broken pathetic piece of shit with no power. God, I hate politicians.

| 0 minutes ago

Monjubikahn
Oct 12, 09 3:46 AM CDT

There has never been an International standard of conduct in war times.and out. Standards have to be built into the character of soldiers. Remember the America Soldiers who wiped out an Iraqi family so that they could rape the daughter. That was an act of treason that went unpunished. The ring leader is sitting in prison with a life sentence. He should have faced the Firing Squad for betraying and defaming America. If Ugo Chavez attacked us we would respond the same way. The Pope absolves all sins in time of war. A soldier can do anything he wants without fear of being damned to hell. War is not a Gentlemans game. It is lethal. Isreal must protect itself. Germany has been promised Nuclear Weapons by France. What do you think they will do with them. They will kill their enemys. International standards of conduct go out the window in times of war. There is too much blood lust and ethnic cleansing which ensures that the next generation bears you genetic footprint. This is the reality of war from the beginning of human history. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

View all 33 comments »

Israel • Middle East • West Bank • Israel and Palestinians • Nobel Prize • Nobel Peace Prize • President Obama

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Israelis, Palestinians Skeptical of Obama Nobel