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SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 2009

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Palin Hints at
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Nov 19, 09 5:28 AM CST

|NEXT STORY »

School Suspends 1st-Grader for Cub Scout Eating Utensils

Zero-tolerance weapons policies sometimes ridiculous, say critics

By Nick McMaster| Posted Oct 12, 09 1:42 AM CDT|

(Newser) – A first grader was suspended for 45 days from school for bringing a Cub Scout combined knife-fork-spoon utensil to class, triggering an uproar among parents. Zachary Christie, 6, was booted because his Newark school has a zero-tolerance policy on knives. Horrifying episodes like the Columbine and Virginia Tech shootings have heightened penalties for school contraband, but critics say some anti-violence policies have gone too far.

[Images (3)]

[Quotes (1)]

Scouting Magazine. (PRNewsFoto/Boy Scouts of America)

New Boy Scout Handbook. (PRNewsFoto/Boy Scouts of America)

A set of camp eating utensils sold by the Boy Scouts of America.

« Prev« Prev | Next »Next » Slideshow

There is no parent who wants to get a phone call where they hear that their child no longer has two good seeing eyes because there was a scuffle and someone pulled out a knife.
- George Evans, president, Christina district school board

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41 comments

VIEWING:

Rocket448
Oct 12, 09 2:00 AM CDT

Forty-five day suspension? 45 days!?!? That tells me that the adult communication has broken down but good at that school. In Milwaukee, suspensions for high-schoolers are 3 days- for fighting. Fewer, if the parent comes to school for a conference the next day. What does 45 days for this infraction mean? I'm not second-guessing the administration there, I'm saying: that is not right by any standard. Reply

+16

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 12, 09 7:53 AM CDT

Might I suggest that maybe they are punishing the parents as well.

IN RESPONSE:

ghstomahawks
Oct 12, 09 9:01 AM CDT

@Fondue: Punishing a parent by refusing to educate their child? There's something just as wrong about that.

IN RESPONSE:

Unaffiliated
Oct 12, 09 9:03 AM CDT

Fondue is right. Someone has to stay home or pay for day care for 45 days. Rocket is also right. Communication between adults has broken down at this school, and 45 days is a punishment that does not fit the crime.

| 0 minutes ago

rosy_s
Oct 12, 09 2:12 AM CDT

that's pushing it a bit no? 45 days for a 6 year old??? Reply

+12

IN RESPONSE:

Reader64481089
Oct 12, 09 6:13 AM CDT

I seriously have to wonder where the hell the School Principals brain along with School boards brain is located? Do they still have a freaking brain or are they brain dead robots

IN RESPONSE:

Rocket448
Oct 12, 09 1:36 PM CDT

A 45-day-suspension is way off base, it isn't a punishment its a de-facto expulsion. 45 school days is 9 weeks, or half a semester. The Christina board has kicked a 6 y/o out for a quarter of the school year.

| 0 minutes ago

DarkFrancis
Oct 12, 09 2:14 AM CDT

Too much. That is a terrible punishment for a child who did not act out of malicious intent. When people speak of a correctness gone too far, this is up there with renaming fairy penguins 'little' and banning Santa. It's also why I, as someone who should be proud to call myself liberal...often don't. Reply

+12

IN RESPONSE:

riffran
Oct 12, 09 5:17 AM CDT

wow DF...You just pointed out one of the very reasons I am not a liberal ...the over the top "correctness", just drives me up the wall..things like the banning of witch mask at halloween so as not to offend real witches...the penguins you mentioned, some schools getting rid of the whole validictorian, salutorian, historian thing because it "hurts" the self esteem of those who didnt do as well...THAT type of thing is why I am not a liberal. And not all liberals apparently think that way either, I am actually happy to see..thanks (not sarc) :)

-3

IN RESPONSE:

Carpediem4U
Oct 12, 09 6:50 AM CDT

Wow riffan, thats just stupid. How you manage in one simple lil move tie all the worlds ills to liberalism. Bet you didn't know that a working wage is liberalism, that 40 hour work week is liberalism, safe working conditions is liberalism, child safety laws liberalism, public schools is liberalism, drinking water standards is liberalism. That libraries are liberalism at its finest. A national hiway system connecting all of America is liberalism, electricity to rural America, liberalism in action. I have many more examples of liberalism in action. Here is the first thing I can think of off hand that is conservatism, the death penalty, and stringent sentencing guide lines in a one size fits, here's another one, survival of the fittest....the strong roll over the weak, no exceptions. Now that is a tried and true conservative policy, no? Here's another one for kicks...wealthy people good and pure and honest, poor people evil and lazy and dishonest. White good, black bad. Did I miss anything riffran?

IN RESPONSE:

riffran
Oct 12, 09 7:02 AM CDT

you forgot breathing oxygen, sunglasses, and wood carving...those also have nothing in common with liberalsim...much like you're tying in roads working and water....and this is the funny part."Here's another one for kicks...wealthy people good and pure and honest, poor people evil and lazy and dishonest. White good, black bad. Did I miss anything riffran? "...right out of the same tired ole liberal playbook mantra...

-3

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Oct 12, 09 9:41 AM CDT

I've got news for you, the banning of witch masks is more likely from some right wing bible group against witchcraft.

IN RESPONSE:

Rocket448
Oct 12, 09 1:45 PM CDT

I can't leave this topic alone lol. Don't blame liberalism for the Christina Bd of Ed's crazy policies: this is educationism at its worst, making policy take the place of communication. Its nothing less than a paternal approach to schooling (which is rooted in conservatism), which has long been discredited.

IN RESPONSE:

zik
Oct 12, 09 5:35 PM CDT

What is educationism Rocket? Because as far as I can tell its the idea that everyone should be educated, not such a bad idea... and are you proposing having 6 year olds participate in a collaborative learning enviornment? I know college students who can't handle that...

IN RESPONSE:

Rocket448
Oct 13, 09 1:42 AM CDT

@Zik - "educationism" is a rather dirty word, Zik, used to describe a system of social control and oppression. An "educationist" is a person in a position of authority in a school who puts the institution ahead of the student. NCLB really empowered the educationists in my opinion, by allowing testing to take precedence over teaching.

| 0 minutes ago

SalParadise
Oct 12, 09 2:15 AM CDT

The reason African American students receive a disproportionate number of expulsions and suspensions is because a disproportionate number of African American students live below the poverty line. Address the problem at its source instead resorting to covering up clean skin with a Power Rangers Band-Aid. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Rocket448
Oct 12, 09 1:29 PM CDT

Absolutely that is true. The American underclass is overwhelmingly African-American, and is typified by grinding poverty and one-parent families. Living conditions for this underclass are very much worse than for people living in poverty only a generation ago. This problem cannot be addressed in the schools, but that brings up an important issue: when the kids are in school (as opposed to dropping out or working as a baby-sitter for an absent mom) the school is obligated to teach them. Quite simply, it is any school's mission to keep kids in school, safe, well-looked-after, and in class learning. The Christina district board has abrogated their agreement with parents and students by instituting a draconian suspension policy. I'd pull my kid too, and school him at home, rather than send him to a school district that substituted policy for educational values.

| 0 minutes ago

Todd_English
Oct 12, 09 2:23 AM CDT

Now that this is national news I guarantee that hell be back in school pretty quick. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

thejanet
Oct 12, 09 2:42 AM CDT

In my view, zero-tolerance policies are a sign of school and district officials abdicating their duties. This story is a really extreme example of school policy gone wrong. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

schmidtkoff
Oct 12, 09 11:46 AM CDT

@janet - the school polices across america have been going wrong fo a long time now. hyper-vigilance, paranoia and over reaction are now the rule.there is reason nor logic. it simply boils down to CYA or if you prefer CYOA.

| 0 minutes ago

kyleleitch
Oct 12, 09 3:28 AM CDT

You know how those first graders will just... crack one day... Maybe our school's administrators should be more concerned with actually educating our children as opposed to suspending a 6 year old who thought his cub scouts stuff was cool and wanted to show his friends. Really, do these administrators remember their childhoods? Getting something new or interesting and wanting to bring it to show your friends. Let's not forget that the Virginia Tech shooting was done by an adult who had issues, not a first grader. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

riffran
Oct 12, 09 5:20 AM CDT

Makes you wonder what those in charge of educating our children are thinking, and WHAT they are teaching Reply

-2

| 0 minutes ago

LiberalJesus
Oct 12, 09 6:01 AM CDT

Yea riffran, you are so sure this is a liberal policy. I thought liberals allowed EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN.....but now you're telling us its liberals pushing strict conservative policies of zero tolerences. What a simplteton you are. Please provide any evidence other than your own biased opinions to back your theory that this is a liberal policy instituted by a liberal school board. I suppose all the schools across the south that have zero tolerence policies in the hot bed of the bible belt are liberals pushing it. If you'll take the time to look back in the past, you'll see that it is conservatives that do more "controlling" of school kids activities than any liberal admininstrations, witness the dropping of Arts, music and PE classes from school programs in cost costing moves while pushing the teaching of THEIR brand of religion. Its never the football team.that gets its funds cut or the open mindedness of ALL RELIGIONS being discussed. I could give you more examples but that would be lost on you. Your typical view, as been shown time and again is, "if I disagree with it, it's a liberal thing, if I agree with it then its right" The zero policy isn't why you're not a liberal, the problem is you are closed minded, or in the dictionary's correct meaning of conservatism....."narrow minded." Whether it's genetics or sheer laziness is up for debate. While you're at it you might as well blame liberalism for teutonic plate shifts in California and volcanos in the South Pacific because going through the trouble of reading and learning about earthquakes and volcanos requires an open mind and a thirst for knowledge. Much easier to just blame liberals, not very bright but it fits the pattern of conservative thought. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

riffran
Oct 12, 09 6:45 AM CDT

now liberalbajeezus...I didn't blame a "zero tolerance" intolerance as to why I am not a liberal...I blame the over correctness mentality so prevalant in many liberal tenets.....for example, I have *gasp* ZERO TOLERANCE...for rape, child molestation, stealing, murder, thuggs, gang violence child abuse, illegal immigration, and coconut crusted orange chicken, and there are others .....But to the meat of the discussion...yes I am not a liberal and proudly so...and in reflection...you are just as polarized in the opposite sense, as evidenced by you're numerous rants that all the things wrong are conservative in origin, and frequent snide quips to that effect...so in a manner of speaking you are blaming me for being just like you..one going east and the other west, so spare the feigned outrage for somebody that doesn't pay attention...by the way every school that I am aware of in about a 400 mile radius from my district has some sort of athletic program,,,,AND PE....but not all of them have football, some have soccer, some have fencing, some have classic music programs,art, drama, acting, choir, and plays and some *gasp* have courses on relegion in general...not just christianity.the pro's and con's are more of an indivudual location rather than a general one ...but you are right it IS easier to blame liberals...just like it is easier to blame conservatives for all you're woe's

-4

IN RESPONSE:

mehrheit
Oct 12, 09 7:57 AM CDT

LJ, I agree w/you a lot of the time, but you are just plain off-base here. Your post has merit in regard to certain conservatrolls on newser, and you're totally right about "The zero policy isn't why [riffran is] not a liberal," but riff is one consistently conservative newser poster who LEAST fits the closed-minded, blame-everything-on-liberals image you put forth. Aim your vitriol carefully, lest the merits of your comments be overlooked.

| 0 minutes ago

SemperFI
Oct 12, 09 6:31 AM CDT

Now how stupid is this. Terroist 6 y/o. And we cant even put the bankers who brought the economy in jail. But we can nail this 6 y/o Reply

| 0 minutes ago

LoudProudLib
Oct 12, 09 7:16 AM CDT

Weak response riffraff..you just got punk'd and now youre gonna crawfish away. LJ didnt blame conservatives for anyting, merely pointed out the absurdity of your post. And yet even in defeat you tried to turn it into a victory. You're the one who blamed liberals for that zero policy, as if it was implemented with no support or against the wishes of conservatives who are "far more prevalent on school boards across the nation than liberals"...that quote coming from the Weekly Standard in February of 2007. And you failed to provide any evidence that this particualr incident was because of some "rogue" liberal policy. I didnt see any teabaggers with posters protesting zero tolerances.....that must have slipped their feeble minds as their main ambition was trashing the President and lately, the country...witness the zeal and giddiness over the USA losing the Olympics and an American President winning the Nobel Peace Prize. Wanna venture a guess when and what conservative republican will even be in the running for a Nobel? You brought this on yourself. Only private schools are run by a single minded view, ie Catholic and christian private schools. Public schools are run by public officials from the public, hence the term "public schools.' Reply

IN RESPONSE:

riffran
Oct 12, 09 8:23 AM CDT

sorry LPL..it's not the zero tolerance, you seem to be so focused on, that I was referring to..it was the "overrecting or overcorrectiveness", that I have seen associated in some incidents in the past, and they seem to be more prevalent in areas dominated by a liberal mindset majority....but please continue to bring up evey liberal talking point no matter how unrelated..and to be fair, I have seen conservative examples of what I don't like in liberals...such as the staunch anti-gay stuff, stem cell research insanity, the aborton stance, and yes even some of the bible thumping as an excuse, but the PC attack stuf I was referring to like the "not offend real witches" type of thing or o manger scenes on government property because it might offend non christians, or suspending a boy for most likely innocently having a boy scout knife is not usually associated with the average conservative person...but go ahead and bash away....

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Oct 12, 09 9:44 AM CDT

Right, because right wing groups never back stupid things...like banning books like "Catcher in the Rye" or "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer"

| 0 minutes ago

ghstomahawks
Oct 12, 09 8:59 AM CDT

When I was in 3rd grade I was threatened by a 1st grader with a knife on the bus ride to school. A police officer and the principal were waiting for us when we finally got to school, but he was back in school after missing only a day. I felt that was rather lenient, but would be more than ample time to explain to a 1st grader who showed no maliciousness just why he can't bring his set of utensils to school. After all, in 1st grade it should be about teaching them what was right and wrong, and so ensuring that everyone is safe, rather than punishing innocent mistakes. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

riffran
Oct 12, 09 9:16 AM CDT

now that makes sense

| 0 minutes ago

Aelius28
Oct 12, 09 9:25 AM CDT

Violent acts - especially with weapons - are virtually unheard of for school children before puberty. It just doesn't happen, look at Wikipedia's list of school shooting incidents. Out of over 100, there was only one perpetrated by prepubescent children. I've had a knife in my pocket since I was about 7 and carried it all throughout school, simply because it proved itself to be of invaluable use. If I ever forget my knife at home, I always find myself needing it. Fucking sheeple. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

RealDeal
Oct 12, 09 10:04 AM CDT

It's not a crime, so there should be no punishment. How does what he brought differ from what they have in the school cafeteria? They can be connected and carried as a unit, that's all. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

zackmasson
Oct 12, 09 12:18 PM CDT

45day suspension is a penalty? I would think that sounds like a vacation, unless his parents are unbearable. Wow still 45 wtf? I'm just imagining that knife, spoon, and fork combo connected with a metal loop and the teacher thinking terrorist! lol Reply

| 0 minutes ago

TomDanielson
Oct 12, 09 1:12 PM CDT

without a doubt the problem solving skills of the world is at an all time low. This time the victim is the little 6 year old. Our leadership across the board is beyond pathetic. By the way zero tolerance is meaningless. It is a method used to avoid ownership of problem. Iif there are no parameters there is no way to measure improvement or lack of improvement. Lots of excuses though. My heart goes out to the family and the youngster and leaves me feeling holpless. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Mad
Oct 12, 09 1:23 PM CDT

Zero Tolerance policies are for the weak of mind. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

zackmasson
Oct 13, 09 1:55 AM CDT

You know what those signs that say weapon free zone do, they don't deter they invite. It just announces, no one here has a gun come shoot us to any psychos around.

| 0 minutes ago

kansas1946
Oct 12, 09 6:15 PM CDT

Advocates of zero-tolerance policies stress that it's difficult for teachers to distinguish pranks from serious threats. In addition, studies have shown that allowing teachers’ some discretion in applying punishment has led to uneven application—with African-American students receiving a disproportionate share of expulsions ********************************************* Horse puckey. Zero tolerance policies are policies of the lazy. No one want to have to think. Schools should have a review board comprised of teachers and parents to look at each case and handle it appropriately. This ridiculous case, and many many others, show how lazy and frightened everyone is of critical thinking. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

SPH
Oct 13, 09 12:59 AM CDT

How do children at this school eat lunch without a fork or a knife?........ Reply

| 0 minutes ago

licia1234
Oct 13, 09 4:37 PM CDT

that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. this child is 6 years old he doesnt know anything about the zero tolerance policy. its so sad that the worlds even come to this Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Snarfeh
Oct 13, 09 7:14 PM CDT

Forty-five days is WAY excessive. However, this is not a left or right thing; this is a helicopter parent thing. School administrators are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Thanks to parents who get TOO involved in school policy, school officials walk on egg shells in fear of a lawsuit. I feel sorry for them. I am sure they realize how stupid this is, too, but they are covering their asses due to lawsuits filed by overzealous parents. You cannot put hundreds, much less thousands, of kids in one setting and expect it to be tailored to each and every kid, but helicopter parents who don't like the way something is done or handled jump in with criticism and lawsuits making the jobs of teachers, principles, superintendents and school boards all but impossible to do. Many blame poor education on the teachers, but I blame it on the parents and the government. And no, I am not nor have I ever been, a teacher. But I have been a student.... Reply

| 0 minutes ago

View all 41 comments »

Virginia Tech • discrimination • weapon • elementary school • Columbine school massacre • knife • Boy Scouts of America • policy

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School Suspends 1st-Grader for Cub Scout Eating Utensils