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|NEXT STORY »

UNHOLY CAMPAIGN

Atheist Ads to Hit NYC Subways

Coalition to launch godless monthlong campaign

By Mary Papenfuss| Posted Oct 21, 09 5:36 AM CDT|

(Newser) – Eight atheist organizations are the creators of a unique month-long ad campaign beginning next week in Manhattan subways that will challenge the belief in God. "A million New Yorkers are good without God. Are you?" the ads will ask on posters featuring blue sky and clouds. Because the city's subways host 5 million riders a day, the Big Apple Coalition of Reason decided the underground ads would return the "best bang" for the $25,000 campaign, said spokesman Michael De Dora Jr.

The ads are "not poking fun at religion and not being outright nasty," he said. The intent of the campaign is to get people talking and to support those who don't believe in God. People "don't need religion to be good and productive members of society," and nonbelievers "add to cultural life of New York," said De Dora.

Atheists are getting noisier. (©gruntzooki)

Atheist messages like this have cropped up on buses in Toronto, London and Barcelona. Now New York subways will host a new message in an ad campaign by a coalition of atheist groups. (©Atheist Bus Canada)

Some pointed sentiments. (©Napalm filled tires)

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99 comments

VIEWING:

Aelius28
Oct 21, 09 4:32 AM CDT

Fuck yeah :D Reply

+18

IN RESPONSE:

zackmasson
Oct 21, 09 4:45 AM CDT

Hellz to the yea!!! woooo :P

IN RESPONSE:

KurtRambis4va
Oct 21, 09 6:56 PM CDT

Why do atheists want to force their agenda down your throat? I didn't ask for their opinion! Oh wait, never mind.....

| 0 minutes ago

Netstorm2k9
Oct 21, 09 4:49 AM CDT

Evangelical Atheism. And I thought Jehovah's Witnesses were annoying. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 21, 09 4:54 AM CDT

It's okay, we'll stop talking about the Bible when you start actually reading the Bible. Trust me, atheists wouldn't have a problem with religious people if they weren't influencing legislation and the education system. Which is why here in Canada or in Europe, where most people still identify as Christian, there really isn't much of an atheist movement because Christians aren't influencing anything because they aren't batshit crazy they keep their religion to themselves.

+21

IN RESPONSE:

myvoice
Oct 21, 09 8:07 AM CDT

Aelius28...good point, but would you give credence to a person who pushes Satanism or that we should worship the tooth fairy? Christianity in its core believes to "spread the gospel" Right?I don't think that saying that if the followers practice what the bible reads would make difference to me. Christianity is the sum of its members regardless of what their book says.

IN RESPONSE:

BleeBloo
Oct 21, 09 9:09 AM CDT

myvoice, while you make a good point I think you're missing the larger picture. If someone said we had to worship the tooth fairy that's one thing; when a seriously large percentage of the population says we have to worship the tooth fairy and, in loose connection with the toothy doctrine, our dentists have to remind us that every tooth is sacred and that the tooth fairy punishes those who eat candy with cavities and that root canals are murder . . . yeah. THAT is when it's time for nonbelievers to say, "You're all crazy people."

IN RESPONSE:

thudson
Oct 21, 09 9:11 AM CDT

I dunno, I think Netstorm makes a damn good point. I'm not particularly fond of anyone who proselytizes. That said, I'm impressed that atheists are getting organized.

IN RESPONSE:

Rob
Oct 21, 09 11:13 AM CDT

@thudson You aren't "particularly fond of anyone who proselytizes" unless they are atheist? Even as an atheist myself I find that rather narrow minded.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

schmidtkoff
Oct 21, 09 1:35 PM CDT

kudos aelius - i might have said amen, but being non- religious, un-religious, a heathen, a naysayer etc., i say kudos.don't try to indoctrinate me into your religion - christians for i am not cut of your cloth.

| 0 minutes ago

drlarrymitchell
Oct 21, 09 4:56 AM CDT

It's about goddamn time! Reply

IN RESPONSE:

schmidtkoff
Oct 21, 09 1:39 PM CDT

drlarry - i agree. shout it from the roof tops.

| 0 minutes ago

rosy_s
Oct 21, 09 5:01 AM CDT

subway hosts 5 million riders a day?! wow! Reply

| 0 minutes ago

DarkFrancis
Oct 21, 09 5:09 AM CDT

This started on London buses about a year ago. There was outarge there and I'd expect there'll be greater outrage in the US. But if religious organisations can peddle their message publicly, atheists deserve the same right. I do believe that's one of the signs that you're free. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

tran_tor
Oct 21, 09 8:04 AM CDT

Atheists will find as churches did, trying to advertise morality isn't effective. A godless soapbox is just as annoying as a church pulpit.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Unaffiliated
Oct 21, 09 8:27 AM CDT

Agreed tran_tor. I hope churches respond with love and respect. That's what I think the answer is to the bumper sticker question, WWJD. For me, church is about being in community with others, respecting diversity, and meeting each individual where they are. It's not about trying to force others who may be more roundish to fit into square holes.

IN RESPONSE:

BleeBloo
Oct 21, 09 9:19 AM CDT

Tran_tor, it's not advertising morality in any way, shape, or form! It's not saying abortion is bad, or dictating any action. It's just provoking thought: Do you really have God in your day to day life? Why defend something so absent and alienated from your existence?

IN RESPONSE:

DarkFrancis
Oct 21, 09 3:14 PM CDT

Hi, tran. I don't think the suggestion that there is no God is a moral argument. The ad merely provokes a thought, rather than prescribing or proscribing a way of life.

| 0 minutes ago

jeebus
Oct 21, 09 5:12 AM CDT

Just put up a giant picture of a priest trying to grab a kids ass, with a caption "does this man share your spiritual values?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSfVbXnIS6Q Reply

| 0 minutes ago

phil
Oct 21, 09 5:18 AM CDT

My problem with this... Most people find god a comfort, not a worry.... Belief or non belief in God doesn't preclude you from experiencing existential depression. You will still worry. It seems a bit juvenile to me. As, well, we don't know if god exists or not, or in what form, or what god is. So, er Science should stufu because they don't have the answers. ergo, the poster tells me more about the atheists self importance than anything else. Reply

-4

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 21, 09 5:41 AM CDT

By "Stop worrying and enjoy your life" it's alluding to the fact that hundreds of millions of people live scared shitless that they're going to hell if they don't behave properly. How many hundreds of millions of young Christian boys are going to have to go through adolescence restraining themselves from masturbating or getting a girlfriend because they fear that's a sin. How many millions of hours of productivity are wasted in the guiltbox - I mean confession - or with hands clasped in prayer? It's just one giant disgusting fucking endless cycle of FEAR and control. That's all the add is saying, it's not saying "stop believing in God and you never have to worry again!" of course not.

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 21, 09 5:44 AM CDT

(spelling correction from above: ad*) Oh and phil, just because science doesn't have all of the answers doesn't mean you can turn around and be like "BAM! Fucking. Magic." Because that's what anti-science theists propagate; they say that since science doesn't have all the answers therefore A) we have all the answers or B) science can't be trusted at all.

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 21, 09 7:02 AM CDT

...Because, Aelius28, they don't understand that science is not about having the answers; it's about GETTING the answers. It's about asking the questions.

+10

IN RESPONSE:

phil
Oct 21, 09 8:44 AM CDT

To Aelius... it depends on your religion doesn't it? We aren't all peasants who throttle ourselves like James Joyce and believe in men with beards running the galaxy. Many independently minded people who are not religious have a profound understanding of what God might be to them. in their own mind. Don't condescend anyone with faith. They have thought more about all this crap than you might otherwise think. For example... how would my no longer believing in shared consciousness or feeling that there was something 'out there' that might be a god of some kind, help me 'stop worrying'? What is a God anyway? An advanced being? What? I find the questions intriguing and it all has nothing to do with worry. i don;t follow a religion as such and I don't live in some medievil guilt prison either. Its seems a bit generalised and stupid to declare anything about God, which is why both side of this debate are quite retarded..

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 21, 09 9:16 AM CDT

Then phil, you're not a problem. I don't have a problem with you or your beliefs. But the reality is there is a significant potion of the United States population that takes their religion very seriously indeed. And, particularly in the south, this has shown to have an enormous impact on both legislation and school board policies. Not to mention that tens of millions of people go to the poll booth every 4 years and vote for a Presidential candidate based on their religion OR do NOT vote for a Presidential candidate because they don't approve of their religion. If everyone was like you, phil, you'd hardly hear a word from atheists on the subject. We just don't care what you believe as long as you leave us alone and keep it to yourself.

| 0 minutes ago

Thinker
Oct 21, 09 6:51 AM CDT

It is interesting that religion, which is based on FAITH, has so many followers intent on proving their religion is fact. Faith is KEY to salvation according to Christian scripture. The irony is that, if the Christians succeed in "proving" the existence of god, they immediately eliminate the need for faith and, as a result, completely destroy their own religion. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Unaffiliated
Oct 21, 09 8:41 AM CDT

You must have been a Calvinist, Thinker. I read your story yesterday about being a former-born-again. And I'm sorry you had the experience you did, and that you felt threatened by that community. It really must have been terrible what was done and said to you.

| 0 minutes ago

paul123
Oct 21, 09 6:52 AM CDT

If they are athiests, shouldn't the ad read: "There IS no God", and not, "There is probably no God" ? Reply

-3

IN RESPONSE:

Corona_Kinq
Oct 21, 09 7:37 AM CDT

Not necessarily. They "believe" there is no god, not "we factually know there is no god."

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 21, 09 7:38 AM CDT

Because atheists don't say there's no God... you been listening to a few too many pastors recently? Atheists have one of two possible positions - Either they believe there IS NO god, or they do not have a belief on the matter. The latter is a bit like your position on the state of the weather 100 days from now. Do you believe it will rain? Do you believe IT WILL NOT rain? No, you have no position. That is the basic atheist, which is by far the most common position. The atheist who says there is no god (like myself) doesn't say that with any absolute certainty; he says that in the same way you say "Jupiter won't explode tomorrow". It could! But you have reason to believe it won't.

| 0 minutes ago

NoReallySeriously
Oct 21, 09 7:30 AM CDT

So let me get this straight - people that don't believe in something are so lonely in that disbelief that they need company to help affirm it? I'm not sure what the point of this is exactly? Hey I don't believe in the tooth fairy.. AND NEITHER SHOULD YOU!!!? Why would they even care what the next man believes? Reply

-2

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 21, 09 7:39 AM CDT

We wouldn't care if you weren't such fucking pricks about your beliefs. If you would just mind your own business; keep your religion to yourself; stop trying to teach junk science to my kids; and stop influencing legislation, we'd get along no problem. And what makes you think we "don't believe in something"? We believe in lots of things, probably a lot of the same things you believe in. Justice, peace, freedom, etc.

IN RESPONSE:

NoReallySeriously
Oct 21, 09 7:46 AM CDT

You're a very angry person. You should see someone about that.

-6

IN RESPONSE:

NoReallySeriously
Oct 21, 09 7:52 AM CDT

..and - to correct you, in all of your fury - I did not suggest that Atheists don't believe in anything, I said 'something'. And if you believe in peace - why are you cursing at me?

-3

IN RESPONSE:

diltsduo
Oct 21, 09 7:53 AM CDT

Your little theory works both ways. People of faith need company to help affirm it? They are simply using their freedom of speech to express their views, the same way people of faith express their views.

IN RESPONSE:

Corona_Kinq
Oct 21, 09 7:56 AM CDT

LOL "need company to help affirm it"....That pretty much describes a church.

IN RESPONSE:

NoReallySeriously
Oct 21, 09 8:02 AM CDT

Don't be confused. The basis of having faith in something is that you can't prove it - so I don't pretend that people with faith in something would enjoy the company of others that share the same faith. That makes sense with religion, sports fans and whatever else you believe in - be it a moment or a lifetime. But since when do people need company because they don't believe in something? I'm not poking fun here, I'm asking a serious question and haven't gotten a serious reply. Just angry retorts and - reverse questions. Answer this for yourself, if you will - if you don't believe in something - you don't believe in it. Why do you need to convince others?

IN RESPONSE:

NoReallySeriously
Oct 21, 09 8:09 AM CDT

er - should read "..people with faith would not.."

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Unaffiliated
Oct 21, 09 8:10 AM CDT

@NoReallySeriously, I suppose we all react like Plato suggests in /The Allegory of the Cave/. Once we realize that the shadows on the cave wall are not real objects, but just shadows, we can stop being afraid and leave the cave and come out into the daylight. Then, once we've been out in the daylight, we want to lead others out there to the "truth" we have found. This can fit an atheist's position, or a Christian's. It just depends on which "truth" is in play.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 21, 09 8:17 AM CDT

For real Corona. They even have tv shows, cartoons, and movies. They also have entire bookstores. I've yet to turn on the tv and see people discussing non-belief and asking for donation, or suggesting that viewers call in for guidance for a path of non-belief.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 21, 09 8:22 AM CDT

Honestly NRS, that is not what the ad campaign is about. "A million New Yorkers are good without God. Are you?" You seem to understand English very well; I don't see how you can get this confused. It would be different if the ad said: Only a million New Yorkers are good without God. Will you hang out with us? But it doesn't.

IN RESPONSE:

NoReallySeriously
Oct 21, 09 8:35 AM CDT

@ una - I can see that, except that the analogy is off. Atheists haven't proven anything, they just don't believe in what people with religious faith believe. They haven't disproved with any certainty anything. So it's not hey I just found out something to be true and want you to know it. It's "hey I don't believe in this and neither should you." So, again my question is - if you don't believe in something - why do you need to convince others - and I'll add - if you can't prove your disbelief is founded in truth as well?

IN RESPONSE:

NoReallySeriously
Oct 21, 09 8:43 AM CDT

@ Fondue - I understand english very well, thank you. An advertisement is used to attract people to an idea, product etc.. So if Atheists aren't looking for more people to join in the same thought then why are they trying to attract people to their ideology (or lack thereof). And if they are trying to attract people to that ideology - doesn't that fly in the face of what most people on this thread are complaining about (people forcing their beliefs (or lack thereof) on others)?

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 21, 09 9:01 AM CDT

@NRS, actually the analogy is quite correct. Atheists haven’t proven/disproved anything and they’re not trying to my knowledge. Yet Christians haven’t proven anything either, but they actually are trying to prove it and the “true believer” is convinced He’s up there. You seem to have convinced yourself that this ad is about attracting people towards an idea and forcing them to surrender their beliefs. I would suggest it is about asking a simple question to start a dialog.

IN RESPONSE:

NoReallySeriously
Oct 21, 09 9:18 AM CDT

@ Fondue - perhaps we disagree on the definition of analogy. "Once we realize that the shadows on the cave wall are not real objects" To my knowledge there hasn't been any realization of what's real and what's not by either side of this debate, or am I missing something? As far as Christians trying to prove God is real - I can't speak for all Christians - but I am not trying to prove anything - and it's interesting to me that no other religion that has a god as a focal point is brought into the equation when Atheism comes up - especially given that Christianity isn't even the relgion with the largest following. Go figure. Also - I did not say that the ads were trying to make anyone surrender anything. I posed the question that if something is being advertised, then isn't the purpose of the advertisement to attract people to what's in the ad? And - that being the case - doesn't that go against what a lot of people in this thread are complaining about in the first place? It seems no one here can actually answer any question I've asked.

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 21, 09 9:23 AM CDT

@NoReallySeriously, we would be doing the same thing if 80% of the country insisted that they receive daily guidance from - and hear whispers from - a magical cosmic hippo named Gus. We'd be doing the same thing if we were living in a country where 80% of people think the Magic 8-ball has all the answers. Again, our problem isn't that people believe in God, our problem is that your beliefs inevitably inform your actions so people who believe in God are very likely to be influencing OUR lives in many ways. And you use the word "something" and yet you have a problem with me responding with "we DO believe in some things"? If you mean "god" then say we don't believe in god, don't say we "don't believe in something" it makes us out to be nihilists. Or maybe that's what you're looking to do...

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 21, 09 9:25 AM CDT

Christianity IS the religion with the largest following; about 2/3 of the world's population. Look at damn near any statistic. And atheists don't have to "prove" anything, any more than you have to "prove" that fairies and leprechauns don't exist. The burden of proof is always on the person making the claim. Theists make the claim "god exists". Atheists say "Oh yeah, prove it." and conventional logic would dictate that it would be upon the theist to present the evidence but instead all we hear is "YOU CAN'T PROVE THAT HE DOESN'T!!!".

IN RESPONSE:

Unaffiliated
Oct 21, 09 9:25 AM CDT

@NRS, it's not an analogy. It's an allegory. Don't read too much into the "realize the shadows aren't real" part. It's just referring to the moment when someone realizes what they perceive as a universal truth.

IN RESPONSE:

NoReallySeriously
Oct 21, 09 9:32 AM CDT

@ Aelius - on the note about largest following I stand corrected. I meant that we're not the majority when it comes to other believers. We're only about 33%. But we are the largest single, sure. As far as the other argument you made - you sound a bit insecure, or angry - not trying to attack you - but I'm not interested in debating with your emotions. Take care.

IN RESPONSE:

NoReallySeriously
Oct 21, 09 9:36 AM CDT

@ una - if you read my original reply to you I didn't read too much into it. I acknowledged it's relevance. My dispute of it being a proper analogy was directed at Fondue who stated that it was.

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 21, 09 9:45 AM CDT

My argument isn't disproven by ignoring it. What makes you think I'm angry with you? I don't even know what religion you are, I presume Christian though. Text has no emotions and I never attacked you for anything.

IN RESPONSE:

NoReallySeriously
Oct 21, 09 9:51 AM CDT

@ ar - your first reply to me - in the first sentence you called me (and others) f*cking pricks. Please leave me be, thanks.

IN RESPONSE:

NoReallySeriously
Oct 21, 09 9:52 AM CDT

er @ ae

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 21, 09 10:33 AM CDT

No, that was a general address to Christians. I presumed you were a Christian. I'm Canadian, if I talk about Americans I may say "You Americans have a strange culture, you're so conservative, you're so religious, you're the only developed people who don't have universal health care." but when I say that I'm not saying that to you as an individual, but to Americans which you are one of. You may not be conservative, religious and you may want universal health care but my address would still apply since it's directed at Americans and not "you". But who am I kidding, you're looking for any excuse to avoid having to respond to my arguments and there's nothing I can say that's going to change you mind.

IN RESPONSE:

NoReallySeriously
Oct 21, 09 11:24 AM CDT

@ Ael - If, in this hypothetical conversation you've posed, we are speaking about my Americanism, and you start a reply to a question of mine with an insult to my Americanism - how could you possibly expect to be taken seriously? If you're unfamiliar with common courtesy, etiquette and respect then fine - just say so. Otherwise realize that you're words were inappropriate and I don't choose to be disrespected (directly or indirectly) by you just because you're too immature (apparently) to understand that calling a group of people f*cking pricks is not a way to gainfully engage a member of that group. That said...you say I don't want to answer your questions - none of mine have been answered - including the one that you responded to in my first post. So let's not go pointing fingers about avoiding answering questions and debating. That said, I'll be the bigger person here and reply to your assertions 1) that advertisement is making a claim. So, according to you - there's a burden of proof 2) What does this have to do with anything that I asked? My questions are simple - yet 3 hours later you nor anyone else have been able to answer them. If I didn't believe in the tooth fairy - that is that. Why would I need company in that? On the otherhand - if I believed the tooth fairy would cause your life to be affected positively - and wanted you to believe that - then I can see why I would want to share that with you - be my beliefs in fallacy or not - there's motive there - positive motive - for me to want you to believe what I believe. What would be the motive for me to ask you not to believe in that, if you did? Before you go off on a tangent - I'm not asking what is the motive for asking me not to share my beliefs. I'm asking what is the motive for asking me not to believe it myself. If you can't answer that then just go about your business and have a nice day. Thanks.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 21, 09 1:12 PM CDT

I don't think any intelligent person would be offended by anything I've said. If you're offended, then you can damn well stay offended. As per your supposedly unanswered question which has been directly responded to several times in this line of posts, for one thing people tend to enjoy congregating with like-minded individuals. Whether taste in music, sports, movies, or political ideologies and religious stances. The reason we don't have people who don't believe in the magic 8-ball's power (or "anti-8-ball-ists") is because our society isn't rife with people who claim that the magic 8-ball is the ultimate source of authority and knowledge and that other people who don't agree shouldn't be taken into consideration. If we lived in such a society, you WOULD find anti-8-ball-ist groups of people and anti-8-ball-ist campaigns and advertisements. It isn't unique to belief in a God, it could be anything. If 80% of the country loved football and wanted to fuck over the other 20% in a variety of ways, you'd see the same groups of people, the same advertisements, the same fervent opposition. But it doesn't really even matter because the people doing these advertisements aren't looking for people to join any cause or group, as has been pointed out to you in this Newser article before several times. They're just getting the word out there. You'd be surprised how many atheists there are who, prior to this decade, thought they were the only one who felt this way. Atheists are like cats, it's hard to get us together and get some group momentem going because - as the term is defined - we don't believe any thing in common, necessarily, we only share a disbelief. A bit like how you don't see non-football-fans getting together in groups. What are we supposed to congregate for, our common denominator is a LACK of something. And finally, advertisements are not necessarily making a claim.

IN RESPONSE:

newsrmandan
Oct 21, 09 1:30 PM CDT

@nrs... you make some good points. Aelius28 has a bad habit of cursing people out while at the same time "engaging" in argumentation. I think it might come from being Canadian, they're funny people. I have found in my dealings with atheists that 1) cursing and general foulness is a part of what makes them atheist. Its some kind of badge of honor, I am convinced that at there hoopla gatherings there is a prize for the person who can string together the most creative forms of the "f" word. I think they get it from the lovely high priests. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madalyn_Murray_O%27Hair 2) They do not answer any questions you may have regarding Atheism. Atheists are those who try to convince (non-believers) that something that doesn't exist, doesn't exist. Its Crazy talk and that's why they shy away from it and take up the cursing. In the end atheists are people who like most have an opinion they want heard but unlike most only their thoughts and arguments ned the table all others are off the table. Its unfortunate that the first thing you know about an atheist is that he or she is an atheist. Its an evangelical fervor they mistake as holding strong to their beliefs. ...er.... I mean non-beliefs

-1

IN RESPONSE:

NoReallySeriously
Oct 21, 09 2:52 PM CDT

@ Ael - don't mistake my reluctance to engage your ignorance as a statement of offense. It's merely a reluctance to engage your ignorance. If you haven't learned how to converse with people that don't share your opinion without being vile and vulgar then I'm not interested in your opinion as your thoughts are, if nothing else, generated at an elementary level. Again, have a good day. @ news - thanks and yes I agree with all that you said

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 21, 09 3:12 PM CDT

@newsrmandan, that's quite a specific stereotype you've drawn up. I have no problem with generalisations when they're... true. There are over a billion people in the world who don't believe in a god. You can't make such specific generalisations at that level. Now, one of the reason you'll find that atheists on the internet in particular are very vile and profane is for a lot of the same reasons that some kids stop believing in Santa Claus. Sure, some are convinced with reason and logic that Santa is implausible. But you know what? Some of them just succumb to the ridicule; the older kids going "Oh you still believe in Santa Claus? Haha! Hey guys, look at this kid - he still believes in Santa. What a fool." That's what some people need. They need that tough emotional body-blow that atheists have for centuries been too respectful to give. Imagine if 80% of the people around you believed in the Flying Spaghetti Monster and many of them claiming that the FSM influences their lives, talks to them, and they turn out themselves to be influencing public policy and other things affecting you. Wouldn't you feel the need to stand up and say "We're not the crazy ones!!!". And reasonable arguments are not mutually exclusive with profanity. I can be the vile profane person you've ever witnessed and still bring a logically air-tight argument to the table. You can ignore it completely of course, like you've been doing, and claim that we have nothing to say but insults even though our arguments are right there in front of your face, but don't be expecting the people reading your replies to be as stupid as you are. You just don't want to reply, either because you don't have a good answer or don't feel like we deserve one, but most people aren't complete fools and they'll see right through you.

IN RESPONSE:

newsrmandan
Oct 22, 09 5:41 PM CDT

@ A28.... I never said you were a fool, you can put two words together with the best. Its just that when it comes to your position on atheism is reeks of a putrid evangelicalism that you so disdain christian folk of. Your logic fits your worldview that there is no god. But your logic falls short in that while you proclaim the non existence of God your forgetting that your major premise is that God doesn't exist. How can you prove the non-existence of something that doesn't exist. Crazy people are sent to asylums (back in the day) for believing something that didn't exist was talking to them. You're trying to prove that a non-existing being non exists. And by doing so your crazy. You presuppose no God and find everywhere you look arguments against your presuppositions the natural order of the universe although scientifically significant can't explain itself by proclaiming...." bang... I'm here". The best of evolutions high minded priests have fallen short of explaining all of this worlds wonders so... it keeps looking for an answer while pushing away the obvious one. If, as you say, there is no God, then you have no argument, against his existence. But if there is a God, then we can reasonable conclude that he made all this and if he made all this, all this belongs to him, and thus He is going to require an accounting for its well being.

| 0 minutes ago

ballen28
Oct 21, 09 7:45 AM CDT

anyone else notice the 2nd image that the font is in dunkin' donuts colors? i thought this was a dunkin' donuts story when i first looked. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

diltsduo
Oct 21, 09 7:53 AM CDT

I'm loving this. Haha. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Timinator2K
Oct 21, 09 8:08 AM CDT

I love their sureness of their convictions, "Probably no God." I'd say they're trying to cover their bets for Judgment Day. If you're going to the trouble of being an atheist, at least BE a totally-all-in atheist, not a maybe-atheist. Reply

-5

IN RESPONSE:

Unaffiliated
Oct 21, 09 8:13 AM CDT

Yeah, my aunt describes herself as "atheish...98% sure there's no god, 2% hoping I'm wrong."

IN RESPONSE:

Corona_Kinq
Oct 21, 09 8:18 AM CDT

See, atheists actually have an open mind, unlike most religious people who are blindly certain there is a god despite no evidence. Atheists think "Hey I don't believe god exists, but since there are no facts prove either way, I'm not gonna say I'm certain there is no god."

IN RESPONSE:

Unaffiliated
Oct 21, 09 8:37 AM CDT

I've had my atheist moments. I rejected that there could be a God who would allow one of my close relatives to die suddenly just a month after his son was born. I still struggle with some of the big beliefs of Christianity: that Jesus was born a virgin birth; that non-believers, despite how they live their lives, will be excluded from "salvation". What if we're missing the point entirely? Still, I try to live my life as though every person I meet is Jesus, so that I would do to that person as I would to him. It's akin to the Hindu idea of namaste, or "the light in me acknowledges the light in you." I'm almost certain some Christian will come along and rip me for saying these things and admitting my faith journey has not always been perfect, but I'm comfortable with my journey. And I'm fortunate to belong to a church that is also comfortable with my journey as well.

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 21, 09 9:26 AM CDT

@Timinator2k, that's what intellectually honest people do. We say things tentatively, absolute certainty is an absurd conclusion to make about anything outside of logic and mathematics. You can't be sure of ANYTHING, not even that the Sun will rise.

IN RESPONSE:

Unaffiliated
Oct 21, 09 9:39 AM CDT

Aelius, I might argue the fact that the sun will rise IS a mathematical certainty, given what we know of Keplerian motion. But I get your point. =0) There's a lot I really do admire about the Skepticism movement. I just choose to continue to believe in God.

| 0 minutes ago

thephat
Oct 21, 09 10:30 AM CDT

When religion pushes respect and kindness, it is not bad. This is the exception. Usually they teach, and encourage xenophobia, war, ignorance, pseudo morality that it meant to control etc... Reply

| 0 minutes ago

thephat
Oct 21, 09 10:31 AM CDT

I think all you have to do to understand religion is take to heart what every religion thinks about every other religion. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Unaffiliated
Oct 21, 09 10:57 AM CDT

I find oversimplifying things distasteful. Not enough flavor.

| 0 minutes ago

stormy7
Oct 21, 09 10:52 AM CDT

These ads were made by rational thinkers. Belief in the big spook in the sky is irrational thinking. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

stormy7
Oct 21, 09 11:02 AM CDT

Man created the gods not the other way around. Googe Zeitgeist-The movie. It explains the origin of the world's religions. One other thought...Why are the vast majority of gods male. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Snarfeh
Oct 21, 09 11:56 AM CDT

Because we live in a patriarchal society. If you look and research, you would learn that the *earliest* archaeological signs of religion are of goddess religions. The book "When God Was A Woman" is a good start in your search. Additionally, there are multiple religions that are far older than Christianity that have some of the same claims, i.e. a virgin birth, miracles performed by its saviour, sacrificial death of the saviour and resurrection of the saviour.

| 0 minutes ago

doingtherightthing
Oct 21, 09 11:20 AM CDT

Atheists believe in themselves they can do it without God. They are a minorityin this world. The beginning of proof there is a God starts with nature. Look around you, there's a abundance of life on this planet. No other solor system carries life. This just didn't happen, it was created. Yes, there is without a doubt a God. You can read about Him in the bible start with Prov 1:7 thats the beginning....... Reply

-2

IN RESPONSE:

Unaffiliated
Oct 21, 09 11:39 AM CDT

No other solar system carries life *that we know of.* Because we haven't found it doesn't mean it's not there. The same can be said of God.

IN RESPONSE:

NoReallySeriously
Oct 21, 09 12:02 PM CDT

Everyone is free to have their own beliefs. For instance if you, Unaffiliated, believed your father was a good man - that's your right. If you chose to tell others he was a good man - that's your right. If I choose to tell people that your father is a bad man - that's my right. The question here isn't what's right and wrong but what is the motive of the advertisements?

IN RESPONSE:

ezrider
Oct 21, 09 12:04 PM CDT

@doingtherightthing it is just that easy.Rom,1:18-23

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 21, 09 1:17 PM CDT

@doingtherightthing, yes we believe we can do things without God just like you believe you can do things without the help of Zeus and Apollo. There are as many atheists in the world as there are Muslims. About 1/4 of the world. And keep in mind that MOST people are NOT Christians. 2 out of 3 people in the world do NOT believe Jesus is the son of a god. Nature is proof of nature. Just like I can't point to my sofa and say that since my sofa exists therefore aliens exist. There's no connection there... one has nothing to do with the other. I could say "nature is proof of Zeus and Apollo" just as reasonably as you say it's proof of Yahweh. We know very well why Earth has a variety of life. It's called evolution and we've had 150 years of research into the subject, hundreds of millions of man hours and billions of pages of text on the subject. We even have several explanations of how life could have arisen in the first place. We know a lot more than your apparently 9th-grade-level understanding of science would suggest. And you can't say that the Bible is proof of God, that's like pointing to the Egyptian Book of the Dead and saying that it's proof of Horus and the Underworld.

IN RESPONSE:

doingtherightthing
Oct 21, 09 5:33 PM CDT

Aelius28.....your argument is weak for atheisim. The numbers of atheists stated by you needs to be documented. It sounds to high.... You quoted greek gods Zeus and Apollo which are greek myths actually. The greeks made temples of stones for these myths......nobody is worshipping at these temples today..... I didn't claim the world is mostly Christians. I stated: More people believe there is a God than no god at all........ "Yehweh" is spelled wrong. Hebrew has 22 letters. Those letters are locked into Paslm 119. To help you, there is no "W" in Hebrew..... In order for evolution to be fact, all things must evolve equally at the same time. That means all living things, plants and animals. Have you heard of the prettified forest in California. Those redwood trees are millions of years old and are prettified. The redwoods of today look the same as they did millions of years ago. How interesting. There is no such thing as evolution or proof that it exists.... As I stated; read Prov 1:7 in the bible. That will get you started in educating yourself about this world and how man fits into it......anymore 9th grade teaching education you need from me? Just ask I'm available to help a Canadian atheist understand God...

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 21, 09 5:57 PM CDT

Of course no one worships the Greek gods today, that's the fucking point. I'm using your same logic but with an entity we both agree is not real. I could use anything we both agree is real and say the same thing you are - that "people who don't believe in Mohammad believe they can do things on their own" or "nature is proof of Lord Krishna" or any one of any of the millions of things we both agree are false. You know nothing about evolution; things don't evolve at the same rate. Ask any biologist, he'll tell you that. Things aren't supposed to evolve at the same rate and evolution would not make sense if they did. Why do you keep quoting the Bible when trying to prove it? Again, that's like quoting the Egyptian Book of the Dead to prove that Horus exists.

IN RESPONSE:

doingtherightthing
Oct 22, 09 12:03 PM CDT

Aelius..........once again your quoting things out of context. You sure make a lousy atheist. You have no rebuttal that makes sense. Your all over the place making wild statements.......the facts is this: I do know more than you do about evolution. Things change as they grow, and then they die and go back to the earth. That's creation. Evolution means all things change in time at the same space in time. That's evolution.... Your the one who brought up "Yehweh" not me. I corrected you and gave you some inside information to help you PS 119. I didn't want you to stay ignorant. School is about to end here soon. Anymore questions before I sign off........remember read: .Prov 1:7 it will enlighten you!

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shopgirl1623
Oct 21, 09 1:23 PM CDT

My first reaction was what an empty thought. Empty life. I can attest that God is well and alive in me. As an American 'free speech' is a blessing. Furthermore we all have a right to our own opinions. But I wonder... How is that atheists never get as far as those who believe in a higher power? Reply

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 21, 09 1:25 PM CDT

What do you mean we never get as far as those who believe in a higher power? On average, atheists have a) higher IQ, b) more income c) better education. Countries that are more secular have a) more happiness, b) less crime c) less teen pregnancies d) better school performance. 79% of the National Academy of Sciences in America are atheists. These are the top fucking dogs in science, you can't get much better than this Academy.

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Derni
Oct 21, 09 1:28 PM CDT

Freedom of Speech-also-these ads where on buses in Europe long ago-as a former believer and know atheist I support them-they don't harm anyone-they make you think-every damn day your alive is a gift and great day-enjoy . Reply

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johntitor
Oct 21, 09 1:30 PM CDT

God is a concept by which we measure our pain-JL Reply

| 0 minutes ago

diltsduo
Oct 21, 09 1:46 PM CDT

If i got up to the Pearly Gates and St. Peter said go on threw, ide say no thanks, rather see my frineds in family in hell. i couldn't imagine being surrounded by jesus freaks, One hour of Chruchs scares the heaven outta me. "" Yehh Mother Teresa"" or "Tom Perrty,? lets get to the point, roll another one" !! Reply

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shopgirl1623
Oct 21, 09 2:05 PM CDT

My favorite part of the bench is the word 'probably'... if atheists were as bold as they claim, their bench sign would have read... There is no God. " Probably" is farcical. And if anything undermines the atheist mantra 'probably' does. I think 'probably' and the use of the word is just GOD's way of exerting his omni-existence. 'Probably' is the trap door in the floor for the fence-post Atheist. I value the atheist opinion, but it garners no merit with me. To each his own... its a big world and there is room for us all. Reply

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 21, 09 3:16 PM CDT

@shopgirl, intellectually honest people - unlike religious fundamentalists - make statements tentatively. We don't say anything is "for sure", we can't know anything for certain unless it's logical or mathematical. Do you know for SURE that Jupiter won't explode tomorrow? You can't know for sure, but you can say that it probably will not. The reason atheists choose the word "probably" is to show that we're not arrogant fucks who think we know all the answers with every bit of certainty.

| 0 minutes ago

schmidtkoff
Oct 21, 09 2:24 PM CDT

god is dead. It’s not about atheists, christians nor god, but spirituality and not religiosity takes you to a higher plane. something akin to stopping in your tracks in order to take in the world around you, the intricate web of life. find the beauty and mystery in the smallest of creatures. marvel in their ability to survive and procreate despite their diminutive stature. that we are the stewards of the planet, not god. whether a proclaimed christian or atheist the question is: are you a spiritual being comprised of empathy, compassion and concern for your fellow travelers in this life, whether it be human other lesser beings? Reply

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BoZo
Oct 21, 09 3:49 PM CDT

Hey Atheists! Check out some cool anti-god clothing at : tryagainclothing.bigcartel.com http://www.myspace.com/tryagainclothing Reply

| 0 minutes ago

PhillytoWinnetka
Oct 21, 09 4:05 PM CDT

What I don't understand about atheists...is why they spend so much time discussing what they do not believe exists. Thou dost protesteth too much. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 21, 09 4:18 PM CDT

Because the people who DO believe affect our lives with their beliefs. Your beliefs inform your actions, and when you believe as many Christians do that the entire Universe was created shortly after the domestication of the cow; that the whole Great Pyramids were halfway done construction when the Earth flooded and then continued being built with but 100 people on the planet, that children's education should be have such ridiculous notions included with them, that global warming isn't a problem because the world will end when Jesus wants it to, that gays shouldn't have equal rights, that children shouldn't masturbate, that sex outside of marriage is wrong, etc. etc. et-fucking-cetera. THAT'S why we spend so much time discussing what we don't believe exists, because superstitious idiots are rife in American society and the rest of us pay the consequences for their ignorance.

IN RESPONSE:

Kip
Oct 21, 09 4:25 PM CDT

Because presidents and other world leaders proudly tell us they have been sent by a non-existent, all-loving, all-powerful being. And then proudly proclaim that their decisions are influenced by superstition.

| 0 minutes ago

Kip
Oct 21, 09 4:21 PM CDT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8Aq00yJSxo&feature=related An argument for embracing religion instead . . . Reply

| 0 minutes ago

shopgirl1623
Oct 21, 09 6:09 PM CDT

Aelius28 ... To screen out Christian beliefs as affecting peoples life is nuts. Everything and every one has an effect. Newser is a perfect example of a handful of effectors on a minute by minute basis. -- You're also lumping all religions and all denominations under the heading Christian. Seems what you are best at is bad stereotyping. -- Mankind lays guilt upon itself. Not any given religious entity. -- And it sounds like you're spewing ideas that are not your own, simply regurgitating what you've heard others say. The truth of God is in the Bible. Whether he 'probably' exists or not. In the bible, you find find the guidance of how to live. Your argument sounds like you've never read it. So let me inform you, the bible doesn't mention masturbation or homosexuality, it doesn't judge those things as people do. I agree religious extremists are off their mark, but its not fair to lump all us believers as one stereotypical group effecting your life. -- I would tend to think its more the case of you letting 'it' effect your life. Its okay to be a skeptic. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Spudsy
Oct 22, 09 12:11 AM CDT

Actually, it effects his life when religious people try to inject it into politics and laws.

-1

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Spudsy
Oct 22, 09 12:09 AM CDT

And get us atheists our tax break for social clubs too. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

zioncommand
Oct 22, 09 9:25 PM CDT

Religions are businesses, they compete to get people to come to their faith by pitching them eternal life in paradise, etc. Each religion claim that they are the right one. Now, I don't know which religion is right. At the same time, I don't know if I should shop at one clothing store or the next, don't they both offer the same idea, just with a different spin on things? I'm not religious and I am not athetist. I am just speaking of what I have seen and experienced. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

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comfort as jobless
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