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THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 26, 2009

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Nov 25, 09 4:00 PM CST
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Nov 25, 09 12:13 PM CST
Michelle wore...

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Nov 25, 09 7:49 AM CST

|NEXT STORY »

Dems: Let's Just Call 'Public Option' Medicare

House Reps suggest rebranding government-run plan

By Kevin Spak| Posted Oct 21, 09 2:30 PM CDT|

(Newser) – Some House Democrats think the public option would sound better if they renamed it “Medicare,” or maybe “Medicare Part E,” as in “Medicare for Everyone.” They think that rebranding could bridge the gap between liberals and centrists who oppose the plan. “People don’t know what a public option is,” a spokesman for Jim Oberstar tells the Hill. “Medicare is a public option.”

The rebranding has even drawn support from Blue Dog leader Mike Ross, who has been an outspoken opponent of a public plan. Other Democrats, however, say that there’s no need for a rebranding; the public option already has popular support, despite opposition attempts to describe it as a government takeover. “It keeps polling better and better as a public health insurance option,” said one aide. “I don’t think it’s changing.”

Mike Ross says he's in favor of rebranding the public option, a strange move given his longstanding opposition to it. (AP Photo/Danny Johnston, File)

Rep. Jim Oberstar is in favor of the rebranding. (AP Photo/Lawrence Jackson, File)

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi of Calif. gestures during her weekly news conference on Capitol Hill in Washington, Thursday, Oct. 15, 2009. (AP Photo/Harry Hamburg)

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55 comments

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Jayster999
Oct 21, 09 2:32 PM CDT

Just call it socialism--that's what is is. Or theft by government--that's more plain. Reply

-21

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 21, 09 2:41 PM CDT

How ignorant. And two other people agree with you?

IN RESPONSE:

Jayster999
Oct 21, 09 2:56 PM CDT

What's ignorant is how this country has abandoned a constitutional republic for democracy and free-market economics for socialism, which is again, theft by government or "redistribution" of wealth. What we now have is very close to fascism, and I'm surprised that more people aren't concerned about that.

-10

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 21, 09 3:03 PM CDT

fondue it in a joke your even willing to go one step further and call for single raper(payer). You dont want the po for increased competition. This is just a stepping stone for you and your fringe. Why dont get over it and start calling for what you really want, a gov takeover of healthcare. Stop calling for a po if thats not even what you want! Though i do appreciate your point of view and agree reform must happen in some way or another

-7

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 21, 09 3:15 PM CDT

You two are meant for each other. Jay, when did you start receiving gov'ment checks? Hybrid, help me out on the first sentence. In a flurry you seem to have jumbled up some words. I do call for single-payer. It never made it to the table, so what is left is the PO. And if you want a play on words, the true single raper is the health insurance industry.

IN RESPONSE:

DarkFrancis
Oct 21, 09 3:48 PM CDT

Australia has both public & private healthcare systems, has a rule of law, democratic free & fair elections, is out of recession, has a vibrant market economy...need I go on? Your definition of socialism needs work, Jayster. By the way, coincidentally, our public health care system is called? Medicare.

IN RESPONSE:

Yourself
Oct 21, 09 4:55 PM CDT

@darkfrancis - you can include Canada in that column. It's becoming more and more of a two-tier system, with both public and private insurance. it definitely has open elections, out of the recession (hell the dollar is kicking ass these days, just a few pennies away from being at par to the USD) job growth.. the list goes on and on. Can't forget federal and provincial pension plans, better unemployment coverage, better health coverage, better life expectancy.........

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 21, 09 5:01 PM CDT

your right i do like your play on words better and please disregard the first three words of my previous comment as i was talking on the phone while typing.(shows my lack for multitasking) But really why is it that you consider the gov the best option for us and our care, wouldnt it make more sence to open up the state borders and increase comp that way. Also if you are fined for not having entered the po and not having a private plan and that fine is half of what the po premium is then what is stoping you from just paying the fine/tax and when you get sick just enter the po and get coverage(enter the prexsisting condition mandate). That itself could bankrupt any private insurer and really put the po in a bad position to have to raise rates and lower coverage. This seems to be a major issue i have. You also cant mandate that every one enter and pay the premium for the po as many still wont be able to afford it, whats the cut off for free and not free and wouldnt that entice people to then not take a pay increase or try for a better paying job. This is what happens when gov enters the private sector. The morgage industry had fre and fan get involved to lower rates on poor and low income morgages and see what that got us, Subprime morgage crisis. Please tell me how a single payer would be better? cause while in thought it works in reality it wont in a capitalist republc

-1

IN RESPONSE:

commoncents
Oct 21, 09 9:09 PM CDT

Poor little Jayster-socialism is government ownership of industry. There is no theft, it's called democracy, the MAJORITY of Americans voted for this. Grow up you cry baby.

IN RESPONSE:

Cprizzle
Oct 21, 09 10:31 PM CDT

Fascism is none of these things. Research it. Second, "redistribution" happens under every administration. Don't complain because it's a Democrat in power.

| 0 minutes ago

easterner
Oct 21, 09 2:50 PM CDT

Some a-hole runs me over in a crosswalk (his light is red).Five years down the road I need new healthcare BUT I have Brain damage .Thanks to the a-hole I now will have no coverage or will fight like hell to get coverage because of a precondition. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 21, 09 3:06 PM CDT

if your in michigan hes car insurance covers your medical bills and compensation. its called no fault insurance.

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 21, 09 3:07 PM CDT

im sure your state has something similar

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 21, 09 3:20 PM CDT

That's a much easier route. Did you even understand the comment? Easterner said "Some a-hole runs me over in a crosswalk". That means he was a pedestrian. Keep in mind he might be unconscious or at least dazed. All witnesses are more than likely concerned about his well being and not the vehicle. You also did catch the part about FIVE (5) YEARS down the road. Have you ever heard of a 'hit and run'?

IN RESPONSE:

DJM420
Oct 21, 09 11:57 PM CDT

assuming the dude who hit him even had insurance, and that he got caught...dont assume hybrid... not that if the culprit had been caught and had ins, it would continue covering easterners BD... wow...typical nazi-rightwinger, only use the info you want, leave out all the facts...

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 22, 09 3:08 PM CDT

mich is set up for that every policy holder pays a uninsured driver charge that covers poeple stupidity. Thanks but your exsample is wrong, way to research that also any injury from that accident would always be covered, dont quote me on this but i think the blues pick it up thru nofault

| 0 minutes ago

ilguy
Oct 21, 09 2:59 PM CDT

Medicare has been a disaster for healthcare providers. Why would calling the public option Medicare improve the perception of the public option? I for one don't mind that my doctor makes a little money off at least some of his or her patients, and if all patients were all some form of Medicare, there would be no more hospitals and no more doctors in business in a few years. Reply

-2

IN RESPONSE:

Jayster999
Oct 21, 09 3:01 PM CDT

Sure there will, they'll just all be run by the gov'ment.

-4

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 21, 09 3:05 PM CDT

ilguy, where are you getting this information about there not being anymore hospitals and doctors in a few years? Or is this the latest scare tactic? If not a tactic, links to the information proving your accusation.

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 21, 09 3:08 PM CDT

here is a link fondue,,,,commonsence.com you should subscribe.

IN RESPONSE:

ilguy
Oct 21, 09 3:10 PM CDT

i know fondue because i understand the finances of where doctors and hospitals make money, and it ain't off of Medicare.

-3

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 21, 09 3:22 PM CDT

Well, I think you don't have a clue and should prove it. My god man, there are people on the nets that think the earth is flat. Why should I just blindly accept your accusation? So just prove your point with facts and stats. Should be simple since you know all this stuff, right?

IN RESPONSE:

ilguy
Oct 21, 09 3:36 PM CDT

Sure, I'll prepare a thesis on it for you Fondue. Or maybe just ask anybody who has ever known a doctor. Geesh.

IN RESPONSE:

davjc09
Oct 21, 09 3:39 PM CDT

@Fondue: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/business/retirementspecial/02health.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993462778328019.html http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=5326078&page=1&page=1 It's not secret in the healthcare community that doctors don't particularly like medicare, bc it pays them less and its a huge paperwork hassle to actually get paid at all.

IN RESPONSE:

nick
Oct 21, 09 3:40 PM CDT

I can't believe what I''m reading! Many of you don't seem to have the slightest idea of the quality of care received from existing federally run health care programs: How popular Medicare is with those over 65; Veteran Administration hospitals, and the Walter Reed Army Medical Center are -GUESS WHAT- federal hospitals that have been serving our wounded soldiers for more than 100 years. How about doing some research-- that means ignoring Fox News, etc. for awhile- and get some actual facts regarding the existing federally-run health care programs in this country.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 21, 09 3:41 PM CDT

There's a fair amount of doctors that support the PO. I'd say at the least 90% of Americans have known a doctor sometime or other, and they don't go to their office to talk intimate details about the doctor's financial issues. - So no facts. That makes all this just a little scare tactic.

IN RESPONSE:

ilguy
Oct 21, 09 3:49 PM CDT

Good people Nick, but the worst conditions, and the the worst pay are at the military hospitals, and all doctors make essentially nothing off Medicare patients.

-6

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 21, 09 3:49 PM CDT

And Nick, lets not forget that our brave military receive the best health care in the world (according to one Bill Kristol) and it's completely socialized; paid for by the extremely grateful citizens of this great country.

IN RESPONSE:

davjc09
Oct 21, 09 3:51 PM CDT

Type in "docotrs op out of medicare" and see what ya get. I provided you with three links.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 21, 09 4:01 PM CDT

Do those links provide the date when there will be no more hospitals or doctors?

IN RESPONSE:

ilguy
Oct 21, 09 4:09 PM CDT

I know you don't believe me Fondue, but it is not a scare tactic. This really isn't the best forum for providing numbers to you, but if I told you that I have seen financial numbers for many different hospitals and doctors and I say this not from a political perspective, but a practical one, would you at least consider that my point might have some merit, and is at least worth thinking about before we do harm that will be difficult to reverse. You don't have to agree, just know that some people in a position to know are very frightened of this for legitimate reasons.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 21, 09 4:10 PM CDT

You are ignoring the fact that there are 46+million uninsured. That means they aren't getting anything from these patients. Even if only half go on the PO, that's 23 million more patients on a medicare type system which equals more money for the doctors. - http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparebar.jsp?ind=125&cat=3

IN RESPONSE:

ilguy
Oct 21, 09 4:13 PM CDT

But Fondue, it is 23 million additional patients that they make no profit on!

IN RESPONSE:

davjc09
Oct 21, 09 4:35 PM CDT

They provide information that forecasts a doctor shortage (even before the increased access that the bills are promised to provide). The AMA asked to increase the amount of medical student admitted, but that will take time to enact and time to reap the benefits. Medical training will take at least 7 years (4 years of school + at LEAST 3 years of residency). So with a doctor shortage and more patient population. Doctors are going to be overwhelmed. If medicare already causes problems with paperwork and reimbursements, it's conceivable that many doctors won't accept the PO either as a form of payment.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 21, 09 5:01 PM CDT

Honestly guys, I see all of this as an argument for a single-payer system that is streamlined and easier on the provider.

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 21, 09 5:09 PM CDT

@fondue they gave you the links and the proof and all you can say is give me single payer....come on if a gov option wont work how f up would a complete gov system work..open up we have and still the only answer is a free system were the consumer rules and markets drive the price. 23 mill is the number of uninsured not 40 some mil and the admin first reported and then retracted.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 22, 09 7:07 AM CDT

Hybrid, I'll indulge you even though you took a low blow with the commonsence remark. The links and info I am not contesting. Ilguy made an accusation, still yet UNproven, that there will be no more doctors or hospitals in a few years (if there's a PO). This is completely false, and he has yet to show me otherwise. Further, the links and info do NOT show that doctors are not making a profit from Medicare payment. Davjc gave links about 2025, not 2011. The WSJ was an Opinion piece. -- I can't help it if these doctors are greedy and only get into medicine for the money.

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 22, 09 7:20 AM CDT

sorry for the commonsence comment but i was frustrated as are you with this constant debate. i also do not believe there will be zero doctors in 3-4-6 years but that being said this po that is going to be past is so flawed, why replace a flawed system with another?

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 22, 09 7:28 AM CDT

Well, looks like we do agree on something. However, the PO in it's varied forms is all we are being able to negotiate. As I said, I'm for a single-payer system, but that was taken off the table long ago. Our current public options can be fixed with the right priorities in place. What those are is debatable.

| 0 minutes ago

ilguy
Oct 21, 09 3:04 PM CDT

True Jayster.... but good luck finding competent doctors to staff those gov'ment run hospitals. Reply

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Jayster999
Oct 21, 09 3:15 PM CDT

Did you know part of the health care reform is the affirmative action hiring/training of doctors? See, we don't want the best and brightest in guv'ment hospitals and clinics, we want "people of color."

-2

IN RESPONSE:

davjc09
Oct 21, 09 3:22 PM CDT

Jayster: As an applicant of medical school, I can tell you that's not a part of reform, that's already a reality and has been for a while. One is given preferential status in admissions for being an "underrepresented minority" in medicine. Meaning if 30% of the patient population is Race X and there are only 20% of doctors are Race X, then Race X is an underrepresented minority. The thought is that Race Y doctor cannot only relate better to his Race Y patient than Race Z doctor, he or she will be more likely to practice in a location with a high population of Race Y patients.

IN RESPONSE:

Jayster999
Oct 21, 09 3:28 PM CDT

There is also a provision in the proposed bill regarding more money for minority med students.

-2

IN RESPONSE:

Galileo
Oct 21, 09 4:05 PM CDT

Thanks davjc09. Those are the kind of facts that Jay and others like him don't bother looking for, let alone consider. Oh what a great country it could be if everyone had the ability to be objective and consider facts before dribbling their useless ignorance onto the page. He'll probably read that and still not understand the logic behind it.

IN RESPONSE:

davjc09
Oct 21, 09 4:52 PM CDT

I try to be pretty objective. As a white male medical school applicant, I find the policy disconcerting that there's a significant advantage in the process to being a particular race. I also know that there are also more people qualified than there are spots. So I don't rush to the soapbox screaming that someone with a different set of life experiences "took my spot."

| 0 minutes ago

JimW
Oct 21, 09 3:50 PM CDT

They way the economy is going right now, I think doctors are just like anyone else, and will take what they can get for now. Step 1 to me is boycott banks and insurance companies until they wake up and come to their senses. They are pricing themselves right out of a job, and a boycott will either cure it, or kill 'em. Like it or not, we are starting all over again folks, it will never be like it was. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

davjc09
Oct 21, 09 3:54 PM CDT

No what you'll have, is what we've already seen in specialty choices. You have the smartest doctors going after dermatology and plastic surgery bc they don't have to deal with reimbursement rates. It's almost all out of pocket expenses. You have the guys that just got through medical school as your PCP. Don't believe me? Check resideny programs average USMLE Step 1 Exams by specialty.

IN RESPONSE:

ilguy
Oct 21, 09 4:03 PM CDT

Davj is right JimW, and as he says above, they will also opt out of Medicare or any other plan. They seriously make almost no money at all off these patients, so it is better to only take patients who will pay for specialties. We need the doctors more than they need us. Most people have no idea how much time (years) money (hundreds of thousands of dollars) and energy (80-100 hour weeks) is required to become a doctor. The good ones should be rewarded for their dedication, not told by the government what price they will receive for the their services. Try telling your grocer that instead of the $1 he charges for bread, you are only going to give him 28 cents. If his cost is 30 cents, he will have little incentive to sell it to you.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Galileo
Oct 21, 09 4:11 PM CDT

This is a problem with our education system. I totally agree it's terrible for a med student to graduate with hundreds of thousands in debt and then be paid nothing for his invaluable services. It's a huge issue that has to be fixed on the education end. In the other countries where they have universal health care, doctors don't go into debt paying for their education.

| 0 minutes ago

JimW
Oct 21, 09 6:12 PM CDT

No matter how you look at it, we're all basically screwed. When you have 6 people looking at getting the 1 job offered, something is gonna have to break. When a Dr, charges you, he's lucky to see 10% of that money himself. They are in the same boat as the rest of us, and wondering what to do next. They WILL take the public option money, because it is going to be the surest , easiest game in town to collect on. You think YOU have a hard time collecting from insurance companies? I personally have a few Dr. friends that tell me that is another nightmare in it's own rights. They are running out of people that will pay big bucks to look better, and more and more Dr's trying to get into that same game will, well, we all know what happens when competition gets high. Someone will always do it cheaper. I don't like it anymore than any of you, but we ARE in a New World Order. Hey, at least it's entertaining... we're all here talking about it. If we had something else to do, we probably would......haaaaaa! Reply

| 0 minutes ago

cornelison
Oct 21, 09 7:49 PM CDT

This will mean that Americans will not have to die needlessly & mothers will give birth to healthier babies. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

commoncents
Oct 21, 09 9:06 PM CDT

Compare health care to your mail service. We have a public option (Postal Service) thank god, so we can send a letter across country for 44 cents. This did not kill FedEx or UPS. They compete just fine, but if they were alone without the Postal Service (like the health insurers are now) you would have to pay 5 dollars to send the letter or it doesn't go at all. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

ilguy
Oct 21, 09 10:01 PM CDT

There are many problems with this as a point of comparison to illustrate the point I think you are trying to make, not the least of which is the fact that the Postal Service is always in financial difficulty... just as Medicare is.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

JimW
Oct 21, 09 10:23 PM CDT

Actually, the PO is screwed too. A billion in the hole, at LEAST. And now, if I want to send something outside the U.S., they have just screwed me, and millions more again. Up until last week, for Global Express, I had to fill out 2 forms. Now, they want ME to fill out those same forms ONLINE (their servers SUCK), then print it out, and then bring it to them. So, MY time, MY computer, MY ink, MY labor, and do I get a discount for that? No. So, I just now tell them I don't have a computer or ink, and they have to do it all right there. What used to only take a coupla minutes per package now takes almost 20 minutes per package. Today I showed up with my packages, and a lawn chair. I think they are going to realize pretty soon that we are not going to take it anymore. FedEx and UPS are out of my business for good. Thieves. I have caught BOTH of them double-dipping on import-export taxes (they tried to bill BOTH parties). If the U.S, government doesn't want us to export, why not just come right out and say it?

-1

| 0 minutes ago

Stupidiot
Oct 24, 09 1:23 PM CDT

ya so let's not fix whats broken, let's hand it over to the government.... because they do a spectacular job at fixing right? don't make me laugh Reply

| 0 minutes ago

View all 55 comments »

Medicare • House of Representatives • health care reform • Mike Ross • House Democrats • public option

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