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SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 2009

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Matt Taibbi

Palin: Our First WWE Politician

Pick an asshole, any asshole, and she'll rock the house

9 hours, 47 minutes ago
the big plan

Beck Will Host Conventions
to Educate America

He's shifting toward political organizer, plans big DC rally

Nov 21, 09 5:06 PM CST
Senate Democrats Clear
Health Care Hurdle, 60-39

Reid gets 60 votes to open full debate after Thanksgiving recess

Nov 21, 09 7:13 PM CST
analysis

Book Tour Shows Palin
Hitting a Nerve

'Going Rogue' phenomenon may foreshadow something bigger

5 hours, 45 minutes ago
Palin Pulls in Big Bucks
—for Democrats

'Going Rogue' boosts Dem fundraising to new high

Nov 21, 09 6:50 AM CST
who let the paranoids out?

46 Years After Kennedy, the Virus of Hate Is Back

Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert panders to dangerous paranoids

Nov 21, 09 9:08 AM CST
NO COMMUNION FOR YOU, MY SON

RI Bishop Disses
Kennedy Over
Pro-Choice
Stance

Spat over Patrick's position on abortion escalates

12 hours, 8 minutes ago
editorial

NYT to Blankfein:
Your 'Apology'
Is Bull

Editorial board schools Goldman CEO in true meaning of 'sorry'

3 hours, 38 minutes ago
Billboard Links Obama to Jihad

Colo. car dealership wants this opinion heard

Nov 20, 09 8:42 PM CST
TALK SHOW ROUNDUP

McConnell:
Dems Proceed
at 2010 Peril

Senators hit the Sunday talk shows after health vote

9 hours, 16 minutes ago
HE'S GOT A BOOK OUT, TOO

Beck to Unveil
'Big Plan' at
Saturday Rally

Righty pundit OK with destroying Dems and GOP

Nov 20, 09 8:07 PM CST
Eyes on 2010

Lincoln
Swings to
Center of
Health Debate

Dems come calling as GOP eyes her seat in 2010

7 hours, 28 minutes ago
Reid Gets 60th Vote:
Holdout Lincoln Agrees

She'll allow health care bill to move forward; vote at 8pm

Nov 21, 09 1:51 PM CST

|NEXT STORY »

Credit Stimulus for 650K Jobs: White House

Directly or indirectly, $150B spent has had great effect, report says

By Harry Kimball| Posted Oct 30, 09 11:18 AM CDT|

(Newser) – The economic stimulus package has already created or saved at least 650,000 jobs, the White House said today, even though just $150 billion of the $787 billion has been spent. And the number of jobs is closer to 1 million if it includes positions added indirectly, according to the administration. The tricky numbers come from tens of thousands of reports by funding recipients, including state and local governments and private firms.

“We’re solidly on track to create or save 3.5 million jobs by the time this program winds down,” an administration economist tells CNN. “There's a lot more ammunition in that Recovery Act.” Maryland ’s stats make the claim seem plausible: The state received over $2 billion, has spent just 11% of that, and has gained about 14,000 jobs directly or indirectly. In Massachusetts , that number is 23,500. “Our work is paying off,” says Gov. Deval Patrick.

A road crew. Highway construction has benefited from stimulus funds. (AP Photo)

A California Conservation Corps crew that has hired with stimulus funds. (AP Photo)

View larger images >>

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11.20.09

The Health-Care Wars Have Just Begun

11.19.09

Sarah Palin Deserves Some More Attention

51 comments

VIEWING:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 30, 09 11:23 AM CDT

Here's where the RWWs will claim that the stimulus has not helped at all, said assertion based upon the scientific fact that they reallyreallyreally want it to be true. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 11:39 AM CDT

no im talkng about efficient use of tax payer DEBT. This is not a cure or even a good attempt of one. This was suppose to keep unemployment under 8% what are we today....9.8%. This article was straight from the white house

IN RESPONSE:

Snowleopard
Oct 30, 09 11:56 AM CDT

hybrid: if the economy had continued to contract, there would have been a further loss of government revenue, and more debt anyway. and no rational economist thought the job loss was going to stop at 9.8%, but the whitehouse couldn't say that outright because they were being attacked by the GOP for not being 'optimistic' and 'positive' enough.

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 12:20 PM CDT

@snowleop What happens you have money short falls? what happens? just answer that and think to yourself why your gov shouldnt be held to the same standard that you and i are. You cant fix the eco by spending your way out, you have to change your direction. whats the saying, the def of insane is doing the same thing agian and agian expecting a diff result

-1

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 2:26 PM CDT

like you said the TWO administrations lied and barack was totally overwelmed and his advisors pushed thier agenda instead of his. I would consider him one of the greats if he admitted that it was a mistake and shut it down....what a statement that would make twords those who ? the change and hope he promised.

-1

| 0 minutes ago

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 11:24 AM CDT

first time jobless claims Just over 500,000 a week for last month and this money got us 650,000 since feb and this is considered a win. Reply

-3

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 11:29 AM CDT

we the taxpayers just spent $230,769 per job, that money would have paid for 19 peoples heathcare and not a basic plan, the premium plans.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 30, 09 11:34 AM CDT

So, you're speaking a language in which "improving" means "fully cured"....

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 30, 09 11:35 AM CDT

Hybrid, that math would be valid if the improvements weren't ongoing. If things were static, you'd have a point.

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 11:46 AM CDT

OK i will give the adding of 3000000 jobs at the end of this program but even at that we still spent 262,333 per job, Plus it is not doing what we were told it was going to do, Stimulate the eco.

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 11:50 AM CDT

31 billiion in intrest per year on this money so over 30y t bonds that adds up to qquite abit. The numbers i gave you so far havent factored any intrest......do you have a checking account if so then you will understand

IN RESPONSE:

Snowleopard
Oct 30, 09 11:57 AM CDT

to those 650,000 people it's a bit win.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 30, 09 12:10 PM CDT

@hybrid, what was the alternative?

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Wonka
Oct 30, 09 12:18 PM CDT

@Fondue - Hybrids "alternative" would be they typical conservative reply: more tax cuts for the rich in America and less regulation. That worked out great for us the past 8 years...oh wait, no it didn't.

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Oct 30, 09 12:24 PM CDT

Hoover tried hybrid's "Alternative" for four years. It led to a dead economy that took decades to come back to life. Besides, the infrastructure programs are their own reward. By breaking down the dollars spent per job it assumes that the job is the only thing you end up with after the money is spent. It's not. These jobs were building and fixing roads and bridges, shovel ready projects that leave solid value to the commons when completed.

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 12:29 PM CDT

@fondue Tell you the truth im not 100% sure. We could have done the oppisite and cut the gov buget to just the basic services and rebated the money left over for one year, but that could go really wrong. Maybe let the market push through, there has been studies that show when govs intrud they lenghten the time of a ressesion. Its a hard ? to answer but at this point with the data that we have right now this stim bill should be ended now. That money is not a good use of taxpayer money. I would say it should all go to the edu dep to help failing districts and cities reorganize their schools. At least that would be an investment.

-2

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 12:33 PM CDT

@dr. no you are completly wrong i hadnt even given you an alternitive yet so what the hell are you talking about...all i have siad is that this plan is not working.....shovel ready was a very small part of this bill and those were front loaded so it could be assumed that we have seen the greatest impact from this bill so far....look at the data i laid out and tell me where the win is here.....

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Oct 30, 09 12:34 PM CDT

I would grow old and die before you came up with and alternative, because you don't have one. That was the whole point, neither did Hoover.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 30, 09 12:37 PM CDT

So your plan would create twice the unemployment. Would everyone that lost there job be guaranteed a spot in training? Would there be enough teachers to ensure proper training? What about when unemployment funds are exhausted at twice the rate? What ever the number is, be it 500K, there is on average 2-3 other people affected.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 12:46 PM CDT

@fondue agian i did not give you a plan i just threw out ideas i heard and then told you i didnt like them exept for the last one....and 500k is the number that matters here! we are shedding more in a week and two days than the stimulus gave us in 6 months,,,,31bil in intrest a year for 30 years(tbond) at 4%(avg yeild on a bond) is 1 trillion dallors....and that aint paying any principal baby. talk about a big forclosure

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 12:50 PM CDT

@dr. well i would take no plan over this plan...you cant spend your way out and if you try at least make it worth while not a bunch of pork, you know you want to agree me just do it break from your party lines and you will feel much better.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 30, 09 1:00 PM CDT

SEASONALLY ADJUSTED DATA In the week ending Oct. 24, the advance figure for seasonally adjusted initial claims was 530,000, a decrease of 1,000 from the previous week's unrevised figure of 531,000. The 4-week moving average was 526,250, a decrease of 6,000 from the previous week's unrevised average of 532,250. The advance seasonally adjusted insured unemployment rate was 4.4 percent for the week ending Oct. 17, a decrease of 0.1 percentage point from the prior week's unrevised rate of 4.5 percent. The advance number for seasonally adjusted insured unemployment during the week ending Oct. 17 was 5,797,000, a decrease of 148,000 from the preceding week's revised level of 5,945,000. The 4-week moving average was 5,960,750, a decrease of 78,750 from the preceding week's revised average of 6,039,500. http://www.dol.gov/opa/media/press/eta/ui/current.htm

-1

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 1:02 PM CDT

thankyou for proving the 500k weekly loss? So whats your point with these numbers...01%

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Oct 30, 09 1:09 PM CDT

You can't argue against emotion.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 1:17 PM CDT

so fondue gives me this post from the insured unemployment rate witch confirms what i was saying and you say "cant argue with emotion" i like you two and think your funny as shit Dr. but come on this stuff isnt made up...

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 30, 09 1:48 PM CDT

I wasn't trying to disprove or prove. In fact, I asked you where you got the 500K # and you didn't answer, so I answered myself. Yes, you are correct on the amount. However, there is a reoccurring word in my post. See if you can figure it out. Hint: it starts with the letter 'd' and it rhymes with decrease.

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 2:19 PM CDT

I answered below 1 down from where you ask but no big deal. Yes there is a decrease but that is only be cause its revised when they get thier actual info in not exspected. So if it makes you feel better to say that weekly jobless claim numbers are off by 1.4 % then go ahead, untill we break positive job growth it wont matter.

| 0 minutes ago

Wonka
Oct 30, 09 11:26 AM CDT

Let the denial of this good news, by conservatives, begin! Reply

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 11:30 AM CDT

prove me wrong!

-3

IN RESPONSE:

Wonka
Oct 30, 09 11:35 AM CDT

@hybrid - it would be futile for me to prove a conservative wrong because conservatives are incapable of accepting the fact they they are fallible in their "thinking".

IN RESPONSE:

UrUndertaker
Oct 30, 09 11:38 AM CDT

@ hybrid, prove yourself correct and not a self serving troll that you appear to be..

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 11:43 AM CDT

read above wanker and undertaker, weekly claims above 500000 yes thats a week and this money gets us just over what we lose a week! How can you not understand,

IN RESPONSE:

Reader65069154
Oct 30, 09 11:59 AM CDT

It's hard to deny the numbers Hybrid speaks of. They come right from the US Department of Labor website. 526,000 unemployment claims last week. Gov't guesstimate: we created 650,000 jobs. So net gain: $150 billion divided by 124k jobs = $1.2 million cost to create each job. Too pessimistic? Double the jobs created. $600,000 per job. Quadruple the jobs created: $300,000 per job. You just can't make the math work in a positive light.

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Oct 30, 09 12:07 PM CDT

Wonka, they define "truth" as "that which Right-Wing Wackos desperately want to believe," so by definition -- their definition, at least -- they can never be wrong.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 30, 09 12:32 PM CDT

Where did the 500K come from?

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Oct 30, 09 12:33 PM CDT

You can't argue emotion and most right winger arguments are all irrational emotion.

-2

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 12:36 PM CDT

@fondue US Department of Labor website. 526,000 jobs lossed weekly ....and thats low compared to the summer.....when these shovel ready jobs started and that just conserved jobs not create jobs.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 30, 09 2:11 PM CDT

@hybrid, didn't see your answer down here.

| 0 minutes ago

godawgs
Oct 30, 09 11:48 AM CDT

So how do you save or create a job? Reply

-1

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 11:52 AM CDT

i shouldnt have to explain that to you godawgs. But its called free market conditions, supply and demand, check out m friedman its all laid out for ya. This is the best system in the world, hell even the chinese have adopted our form of eco.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Snowleopard
Oct 30, 09 11:59 AM CDT

godawgs: about one third of the stimulus is being directed towards state government, who otherwise who have had to do massive layoffs (teachers, police, fire, jails, etc). hence, the stimulus prevented those jobs from being lost.

IN RESPONSE:

godawgs
Oct 30, 09 12:23 PM CDT

to both of you that was a sarcastic response. You show me an economic formula that figures in creation or saving of a job. the white house is guessing about their job creation or saving. They can't tie 650,000 jobs to the stimulus.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Oct 30, 09 12:26 PM CDT

Most of this data is from the state governments who are basically saying "If we didn't have this cash we would have laid off X number of police, teachers, etc" so that's the formula for jobs saved.

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 12:40 PM CDT

states did not use this money for edu or teacher saving dr. I dont know where you get your info but i get mine from the dept of labor. This money was allocated for certain items before the states even got their hands on it....Pork is what this was,

| 0 minutes ago

Rocket448
Oct 30, 09 12:21 PM CDT

Somebody must've put a nickel in Hybrid. Just thinking about the city and state employees who didn't get laid off or fired, that alone is worth a lot. And thinking in terms of thousands of dollars per job is, of course, the reflexive way to measure the WH statement. However, even a relatively bad economist like myself can look beyond the dollars/job saved ratio and remember how many municipalities were and are hanging by a thread, and how many state governments nearly bankrupted by the crash, so the story isn't really about money/job but saving all our bacon. True, there are dyed in the wool free-marketers who would've loved to see it all go boom but those of us reading Newser are probably salarymen or pensioners who view starving as a bad idea. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 12:56 PM CDT

ya i remember when we had bread lines in feb. bullshit you were sold a line of crap.

IN RESPONSE:

Rocket448
Oct 30, 09 12:59 PM CDT

So, you wanted a depression with all the trimmings?

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Oct 30, 09 1:05 PM CDT

point is that we already had started to see unemployment slow by the time these shovel readies got started. SO like i said you got fed a line of bs from the capital.

| 0 minutes ago

RockyPneumonia
Oct 30, 09 2:36 PM CDT

I think we should DEFINITELY heed the opinions of people who can barely write a coherent sentence. Reply

-1

| 0 minutes ago

UseReason
Oct 30, 09 2:43 PM CDT

Did anybody in here read the actual article? The administrations is boasting that the stimulus has created or saved a mere 30,000 (seriously?) private sector jobs. The other 620,000 are claimed by the state governments receiving the stimulus cash. Do you think the state governments might have an incentive to give positive reports to the hand that feeds them? Im not saying that government jobs are all useless, but the private economy drives the world. Im sorry, but I can smell the bullshit through my monitor. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

ROBR
Nov 1, 09 9:11 AM CST

The stimulus program is nothing more than a scam. They can come up with an exact number,but can't give a breakdown of saved versus created. If the Adminstration knows who got the money and how maney workers they paid with that money,follow me so far? Then the mystery of saved v created, could be solved with a simple question,No? How many of the folks you paid with the money,worked for you before we gave you the money,heh? Am I retarded, or is it that simple? I think expaining the customary handling fee,about 22%, would not be understandable to the American people, so instead of making us think,they say,everything is great,go bowling,order a pizza,cause happy dayz are here again. I myself would feel much more reasured if they would give the thumbs up,like Bob Dole used to do during his run for presidet, I miss Bob. A good portion of us buy it and nothing changes. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

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Credit Stimulus for 650K Jobs: White House

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