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|NEXT STORY »

Swiss Projected to Approve Minaret Ban

Nationalist measure reflects rising anti-Muslim sentiment

Posted Nov 29, 09 8:38 AM CST|

(AP) – Swiss voters approved a move to ban the construction of minarets in a vote today on a right-wing initiative that labeled the mosque towers as symbols of militant Islam, early projections showed. The Swiss looked to have swung from only 37% supporting the proposal a week ago to 59% in actual voting. The move by the nationalist People's Party, known for controversial anti-immigrant campaigns, is part of a broader European backlash against a growing Muslim population.

If the anti-Islam atmosphere continues, said one official at a Muslim federation, "Muslims indeed will not feel safe anymore." The four minarets already attached to mosques in the country are not affected by the initiative. Muslims, many of which are refugees from the Yugoslav wars of the 1990s, make up about 6% of Switzerland's 7.5 million people. Fewer than 13% practice their religion, the government says.

FILE - In this Nov. 4, 2009 file photo a man passes by a poster of the right-wing Swiss People's Party (SVP/UDC) which shows a woman wearing a burqa against a background of a Swiss flag upon which several... (Salvatore Di Nolfi)

Pedestrians walk in Zurich, Switzerland, on Monday, Oct. 26, 2009 below posters of a conservative initiative promoting a "Yes" to ban the erection of minarets in Switzerland. (Steffen Schmidt)

In this Nov. 4, 2009 file photo a man passes by a poster that shows a woman wearing a burqa against a background of a Swiss flag upon which several minarets resemble missiles. (Salvatore Di Nolfi)

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vendetta
Nov 29, 09 8:41 AM CST

Its a tough situation. We have such different cultures I think that normally we could get along but they treat their women so bad, and thats a deal breaker. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Sphinx
Nov 29, 09 9:22 AM CST

Yeah, your commitment to women's rights is admirable. But as a Muslim women, I really get sick of hearing my rights used as a basis to discriminate against all Muslims, men and women. Islam dictates equality between both sexes, so much so that the words "man" and "woman" are used an equal number of times in the Quran. Women in the history of Islam are mothers and wives, but also soldiers and teachers... Muslim women are not waiting to be liberated. They would, however, prefer a little acceptance. So please don't pretend discriminatory, arbitrary laws like these are being passed on my behalf.

IN RESPONSE:

Rocket448
Nov 29, 09 9:58 AM CST

I'm sorry, Sphinx, but Islam could hardly be said to promote equality for women. In the minds of most Christians, Islam is a repressive, aggressive, doctrinaire religion that encourages terrorism while it objectifies and oppresses women. While that may not describe the Islam you know well as an adherent, most Christians would have no problem agreeing with me.

IN RESPONSE:

Sphinx
Nov 29, 09 10:08 AM CST

I know that is the common perception, but that doesn't make it fact. Many people misuse the religion or adapt it to support their own agendas, but it is not in of itself oppressive. The concept of women CHOOSING to wear the burka, for instance, is so foreign to others that they assume that they MUST be being forced. But the only people I know who wear a burka and niqab are American, Muslim converts who say it gives them a level of freedom they'd never dreamed of. I don't really get it, so I don't wear it. That's what religious freedom is supposed to mean. If more countries practiced it, the world would be a better place.

IN RESPONSE:

psycada
Nov 29, 09 10:09 AM CST

You hit the nail on the head Rocket - "In the eyes of most Christians." Unfortunately, this is a very true statement and is indicative of the true problem, ignorance of MOST Christians who haven't any clue of religions other than their own, and usually limited just to their branch of Christianity. Islam is not bad religions, they all are.

IN RESPONSE:

2-bits
Nov 29, 09 10:14 AM CST

"The concept of women CHOOSING to wear the burka, for instance, is so foreign to others that they assume that they MUST be being forced." Someone needs to show your comment to prowlerzee stat.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Nov 29, 09 10:14 AM CST

Rocket, the way I look at it is like this: if Christian, would you want the world to judge you based on the actions of the Klan?

IN RESPONSE:

Sphinx
Nov 29, 09 10:18 AM CST

Psycada - I disagree. I think most religions are in essence good. Most have the same basic tenets: charity, modesty, kindness, patience, etc. People just get so hung up on the little details that divide us that they forget the whole message. But whatever people believe, they should have the right to practice their beliefs. And as these minarets weren't hurting anyone, there was no reason to ban them. The whole concept is ridiculous.

IN RESPONSE:

psycada
Nov 29, 09 10:28 AM CST

@sphinx - you're right. Religion does have it's good points, but those are basic tenants of being decent people. Unfortunately, organized religion just preaches these tenants, but have been the root of almost all evil in this world since the dawn of religion. Just think about it. If everyone subscribed to the same basic tenants, without creating a label for themselves other than "human" there would have been far less wars and oppression, crusades, genocide, promised people and promised land. Religion has become a tool of oppression and populace control, far from a good thing. You and I can be good people and never mention our ideas of what "God" is, because, ultimately, God has no bearing on our interactions with each other. Our parents, school, communities and cultures do. God is just a scapegoat for horrible atrocities upon fellow men. As for the Minaret ban, it is indeed stoopid beyond all belief. No different than the MASSIVE Catholic steeples that use loud fucking Church bells to call Christians to prayer when I'm sleeping. Nothing but oppressive hippocracy.

IN RESPONSE:

rkossik
Nov 29, 09 10:55 AM CST

Yeah, we're morally superior. Christianity is NEVER used to oppress women and deprive them of their rights. /SARC

IN RESPONSE:

Spudsy
Nov 29, 09 1:30 PM CST

In a way I have to agree with Sphinx. We could try to make a deal with the Taliban, they get their country back if they get Al Qaida out. But some whine about their treatment of women. The women are half the population. They raise the men. Why is it our job to decide what treatment they accept from their sons and families. Christians seem to think that freedom of religion only applies to christianity. And that is another reason to keep religion out of any government or policy debates.

-3

IN RESPONSE:

prowlerzee
Nov 30, 09 2:48 AM CST

Nice try, Sphinx. Equal, my Aunt Fanny. Go read "Standing Alone at Macca" and see what the evolved, 21st century Islamic women involved think of being delegated to the basement levels of the mosques, and join this century. I had to lmao at the attempts of one mosque in Boston to offer "Islam 101" to those wanting to learn about Islam. I learned all I needed to know from their instructions for women to come on a separate night from the men, and to the lower level of the building. Pathetic. Happily, there are Muslim women, unlike you, who are speaking out against such swinish separation and inequality...but as the book title suggests, they're feeling mighty lonely.

IN RESPONSE:

prowlerzee
Nov 30, 09 3:11 AM CST

"Standing Alone at Mecca" of course, not Macca!

IN RESPONSE:

Sphinx
Nov 30, 09 4:55 AM CST

Spudsy - You're not agreeing with me when you say that we should just let the Taleban retain control of Afghanistan. I never said that, nor will I ever say that. The Taleban don't operate based on Islam; where in Islam does it say that women shouldn't be educated? Where does it say that drug dealing is ok? I'm saying that women do not need to be protected from their own religion, represented by their form of dress or institutions like the mosque; people like the Taleban that manipulate the religion to retain power ABSOLUTELY need to be stopped.

IN RESPONSE:

aces08
Nov 30, 09 1:40 PM CST

Say all you want but i am not religious at all and have read the Qu'ran. It is a violent book. Not to say the Bible is violent but holy shit the Qu'ran is so much more violent.

IN RESPONSE:

Spudsy
Dec 1, 09 1:05 PM CST

Sphinx, pretty much all of the Abrahamic religions treat women as second class citizens. If we are to ever free this world from the tyranny of superstitious religion and belief in magic, it will have to be led by the MOTHERS. Men enjoy the power too much. But most everyone loves their mother and they could be the guiding light from this madness. I hate religion Sphinxy, but we "freed" Iraq from a nut and they immediately tried to put religious nuttiness into their constitution. You can't fix stupid is the lesson here.

| 0 minutes ago

Laxmi
Nov 29, 09 8:46 AM CST

Repression like this will not help Switzerland. In India we learned long ago that we have to make peace with our neighbours. People cannot exist together when one neighbour is oppressing the other. Then again, indian muslims are different from arab muslims... Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Count-Spatula
Nov 29, 09 9:05 AM CST

Another form of oppression is to slowly build up the number of muezzins shouting from the rooftops to come to prayer all day long. That's religious intimidation.

IN RESPONSE:

Sphinx
Nov 29, 09 9:14 AM CST

The four minarets in the country were already banned from issuing the call for prayer to prevent sound pollution. There was literally no reason to ban minarets in the country, except to make Muslims (already a minority in the country) feel unwelcome. The level of discrimination in Europe is really becoming appalling. At least in the US, cases of Islamophobia are usually isolated incidents, not legislation.

IN RESPONSE:

hanseatic
Nov 29, 09 9:25 AM CST

Well guess what, Sphinx: Europe was built and is maintained by white Europeans. That's why these articles pretend that all Switzerland's muslims are Yugoslavs -- in fact there are as many Africans who are the usual drain on social welfare and the state of morals, not good quiet non-practicing southern Slavs. The reason minarets do not belong in Switzerland: that the will of the Swiss people declares it to be so. Their majority means more than your yiddling about "tolerance". Their freedom to determine the character of their streets trumps your whining about being "appalled". You are the appalling creature in all this, for you are behind the displacement of ethnic Swiss in their own land. Europeans are seeing that for what it is. They won't tolerate forever.

-9

IN RESPONSE:

Laxmi
Nov 29, 09 9:29 AM CST

hans: I thought america was about "majority rules, minority rights?" or so i am told...

IN RESPONSE:

hanseatic
Nov 29, 09 9:30 AM CST

Laxmi, You "learned peace" from your Muslim neighbors only because they reduced your people to rank servitude. You say "salaam" and "hello" more than "namaste". That isn't tolerance, that is the mark, the scar of a race which wasn't able to defend itself against foreign incursion. Peoples can exist, have ALWAYS existed in states of hostility and war; that is how nations define themselves. You idly daydream of a world that has never existed and can never exist, while ignoring the historical experience of Hindoos at the hands of Muslims -- and forget historical: how about Mumbai on Nov 26, 2008? does your race mean so little to you that you would castigate them for not "tolerating" those who would terrorize you into submission and altering your character? is that what you want? Well, the many millions of Hindoos might disagree with you. Just as millions of Europeans disagree with glib multicult moralists like Sphinx.

-5

IN RESPONSE:

Sphinx
Nov 29, 09 9:31 AM CST

The only reason this law was passed was because one conservative party decided to play to the public's fears and introduced the bill. And calm down, no is being displaced, the population is 6 percent Muslim. And there's no reason to make those 6 percent feel unwelcome.

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Nov 29, 09 9:36 AM CST

...And most of the Muslims in Switzerland are neither Indian nor Arab.

IN RESPONSE:

Laxmi
Nov 29, 09 9:37 AM CST

Like the scars your people left on our nation? Why do I speak English as well as I do? Where did England get the crown jewels? Also, I am Hindu, and if you weren't a moron you could tell that from my name. The Mumbai terrorists mean to drive Hindus and Muslims apart by reawakening long forgotten hatreds, something that obviously worked on you.

IN RESPONSE:

RockyPneumonia
Nov 29, 09 9:37 AM CST

{{"That's why these articles pretend that all Switzerland's muslims are Yugoslavs "}} -- The real question is: why are you pretending they're not? Haters like you disgust me.

IN RESPONSE:

Laxmi
Nov 29, 09 9:44 AM CST

"Well, the many millions of Hindoos" <-- I thought you were saying I was Muslim, I see now that this is untrue. You are still a racist bigot.

IN RESPONSE:

SilenceDogood
Nov 30, 09 4:18 AM CST

Laxmi, how are Indian Muslims different for Arab Muslims?

IN RESPONSE:

Laxmi
Nov 30, 09 2:01 PM CST

Perhaps this is a sterotype, but I do not think there are as many extremists in India. It's not something inherently different, I think it might be cultural and environmental factors. What I was really trying to say though is that I cannot be sure of how Muslims behave elsewhere because my only experience with them is here.

IN RESPONSE:

Laxmi
Nov 30, 09 2:03 PM CST

I mean the opposite, there are more extremists than in india.

| 0 minutes ago

Count-Spatula
Nov 29, 09 9:03 AM CST

I love that old Grace Jones song: "...warm ...minaret." Reply

| 0 minutes ago

hanseatic
Nov 29, 09 9:20 AM CST

Muslims practice social intimidation wherever they settle. They mock and assault their hosts, and often rape the women because they're friendlier than their own; and freedom of movement and religious expression prompts them to cry down the hosts' own religious ideas in their very own homeland, as much by being "intolerant" in the name of "tolerance" as building minarets and bullying the native women. Muslims do not belong in Europe. But at this point, self-conscious Europeans don't belong, because Europe belongs to Muslims and their string-pullers at the top of the food chain, who view them, Africans for example, as a good way to dilute native European ethnic cohesion and action. Reply

-4

IN RESPONSE:

Sphinx
Nov 29, 09 9:25 AM CST

If Muslims don't belong in Europe, than neither does diversity or religious freedom. There is something seriously wrong with you.

IN RESPONSE:

Laxmi
Nov 29, 09 9:27 AM CST

And Christians have done much better? Your comment reveals your ignorance. The Muslims in India are very relaxed, and they do not yell about intelligent design like your Christians in America. You are calling extremists as everyone.

IN RESPONSE:

hanseatic
Nov 29, 09 9:34 AM CST

False syllogism. "Diversity" is nowhere in European constitutions; that is social dogma from the left. Religious freedom is guaranteed, but not at the expense of the native culture which set up that guarantee with its own examples of religious variety in mind. In other words, "religious freedom" was not instituted to welcome completely foreign religions, a fault-line between ideology and ethnic feeling demonstrated by this recent vote against the blackening of the Swiss sky with semitic architecture. What's wrong with me is that I'm a European who stands up for his people. You're right, I don't cherish your glib, threatening, moralistic "diversity" one bit -- I'm not your tool, I don't have crises of conscience because I want my family to be safe in their own land and not have to worry that my daughters will be assaulted by vicious dark Muslims just walking to school. Don't like it? Too bad.

-2

| 0 minutes ago

hanseatic
Nov 29, 09 9:36 AM CST

"And Christians have done much better? Your comment reveals your ignorance. " Whatever, dhimmi. "You are calling extremists as everyone." I don't mind Indian muslims. But be aware, those "muslims" are the exact same race as the surrounding Hindoos, for the most part. How did that happen? Here's a hint: swords and elephants. Reply

-1

| 0 minutes ago

hanseatic
Nov 29, 09 9:42 AM CST

" And calm down, no is being displaced, the population is 6 percent Muslim. " I direct your attention to England for an example of unchecked and ecstatically defended "diversity". If you're white, go try living in London sometime. You won't like it very much. The Swiss see this and are vigilant. They don't want to be London or Detroit or Kashmir. And more power to 'em. " And there's no reason to make those 6 percent feel unwelcome." But there is reason to alienate the Swiss, the native ethnic populace of the legal entity called "Switzerland", within their own land by setting up architecture which did not arise from the genius of their own kind? Sounds backward to me. Just as backward as setting up shopping malls in Badakshan or taco stands in rural Utah. I don't know, call me crazy, but I think a race has every right, should stop at nothing to defend its own character -- in every respect. Christians in Tajikistan are clapped into jail for preaching their ridiculous gospels, and rightly so; foreigners in Saudi Arabia are closely watched lest they disrupt the national morals, and rightly so. All these Muslim states are free not to "tolerate". Europeans have set themselves up for displacement by worshiping at the altar of "tolerance", but we see, again, that there is a fault-line at work in the Swiss national consciousness: they don't want to be "European", they don't want to be displaced or made to feel unwelcome in THEIR COUNTRY. Reply

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Nov 29, 09 9:47 AM CST

Hanseatic, I'll only tell you once - Calm Down. You have only been here for 30 minutes and you are attacking individuals. Read the comment policy please. If you don't settle down and engage in civil discourse, I'll report your account. Got It?

-3

IN RESPONSE:

Sphinx
Nov 29, 09 9:50 AM CST

You assume that all white people won't want to live somewhere where they're not the majority, but I don't think you're the best representative for all white people. You also assume that no Muslims are white, which is just utter bullshit. Islam's a religion, not a race. It's easy to get confused when you're so racist, I'm sure, complaining about "dark" people as though they're some kind of enemy, but trust me, it's a religion. And no, the Swiss aren't being "alienated" by Islamic architecture, just like I don't feel alienated when I walk past Greek-styled columns or stained-glass windows. The Switzerland (and world) you're describing is bland and boring, and in no way safer. Alienating minorities is not a path to peace.

IN RESPONSE:

prowlerzee
Nov 30, 09 3:08 AM CST

I have to lmao at the pissing-contest boyz....one of whom called me out when I wasn't even on the thread...whining about "attacking individuals." Sometimes they devote entire threads to content-free pissing contests bashing each other. hanseatic is right. If you're going to whine about the Swiss, whine about the Saudis, too, who make *American* women drape their heads in their country. Can't have it both ways. If Secretary of State Clinton has to wear some stupid head scarf to placate the neanderthals in their oppressive country, then when they come to enlightened modern countries the women should have to shed their symbolic cloth shackles. And until the MEN quit throwing acid on, stoning, beheading and murdering women who aren't draped we can completely dismiss the idea that any women "choose" to be cloaked and masked.

IN RESPONSE:

SilenceDogood
Nov 30, 09 4:26 AM CST

Fondue, you are the ass. Hanseatic has a right to be mad as hell about a situation he finds intolerable. Who are you to say you will censor him?

IN RESPONSE:

Sphinx
Nov 30, 09 4:29 AM CST

Prowlerzee - trust me, in an article about Saudi Arabia, I would complain about Saudi Arabian laws. I am in no way condoning that government's actions. I absolutely hate Saudi Arabia, they give the rest of the Middle East a bad name. What I am advocating is religious freedom, and, in a country like Switzerland that claims to offer such freedoms, these laws should never be passed. I won't deny that women are discriminated against in Saudi Arabia; where in Islam does it say that women aren't allowed to drive cars? They rode horses when the prophet was alive! Please don't equate Saudi Arabian laws with Islam, because it's just not the same thing.

| 0 minutes ago

hanseatic
Nov 29, 09 9:47 AM CST

"Also, I am Hindu, and if you weren't a moron you could tell that from my name. The Mumbai terrorists mean to drive Hindus and Muslims apart by reawakening long forgotten hatreds, something that obviously worked on you." --- Uh, yea, I know you're Hindoo. That's my point. As for Indian muslims, once again, I bear no personal animus against them; in fact I find them MORE CONGENIAL than you argumentative Hindoos. But what I like and you like isn't the point. The point is how India came to host the largest population of muslims in the world. The answer is the sword. They didn't tolerate themselves into the good graces of the Hindoos: they kicked your a**es, made you slaves in your own land, turned millions of you into them, and after further convulsions in the course of history all settles down into a pretty workable social "diversity". That's fine. India isn't as fragile as Switzerland. Switzerland is extremely fragile biosphere, as are all white nations. Switzerland knows what it is -- it knows it is unique and its way of life, the character of its nation, must be rigorously defended. This is why it teaches its youth marksmanship; why it opts out of the Union; and why it bands minarets on its soil. This is the picture of a healthy, self-aware, strong European folk. You want it to be otherwise. You want Europeans to lay down and roll over in the name of their own "diversity". Well, too bad, they're not letting it happen in old Zurich. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

2-bits
Nov 29, 09 9:50 AM CST

Save it for Stromfront, jerk.

IN RESPONSE:

2-bits
Nov 29, 09 9:53 AM CST

You are still overlooking this: The four minarets in the country were already banned from issuing the call for prayer to prevent sound pollution. There are FOUR minarets. There has been an onslaught of them, and they can't even make sound anyway.

IN RESPONSE:

Laxmi
Nov 29, 09 9:57 AM CST

Indonesia has the largest population of muslims, fool

IN RESPONSE:

2-bits
Nov 29, 09 10:20 AM CST

*hasn't been, excuse me

| 0 minutes ago

hanseatic
Nov 29, 09 9:49 AM CST

"<-- I thought you were saying I was Muslim, I see now that this is untrue. You are still a racist bigot." You got that right, sister. Swiss blood flows in my veins, and my folk shall not pass by minarets with their heads down in their own nation. Reply

-3

IN RESPONSE:

psycada
Nov 29, 09 10:18 AM CST

You are by far the worst representation of the Swiss people I have ever encountered. It's a good thing I know other Swiss folk and from them I know the Swiss folk as a whole are not like you. I'm sure your country folk are throwing up at the thought of you using their good name for such hateful view points.

IN RESPONSE:

Shannonals
Nov 29, 09 2:30 PM CST

Reread your comments hanseatic, and you will see your comments are a reflection of a racist

| 0 minutes ago

JonmarkP
Nov 29, 09 9:49 AM CST

Islam is nearly as backwards and barbaric as Christianity or Judaism-you'd think all three would forget their internecine squabbles to unite against education and progress. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Rob
Nov 30, 09 7:16 AM CST

"nearly"? HAHAHAHA You hate and call it enlightenment. I love it.

| 0 minutes ago

hanseatic
Nov 29, 09 9:50 AM CST

"If you don't settle down and engage in civil discourse, I'll report your account. Got It?" I guess in your world of tattling and banning uncomfortable truths, that makes you feel like a big shot. What do I care? My comments are already being censored. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Nov 29, 09 9:55 AM CST

They wouldn't be if you weren't attacking. Again, read the policy.

-2

IN RESPONSE:

Shannonals
Nov 29, 09 2:32 PM CST

Your spewing nothing but hate hanseatic. Why should everyone sit back and let you spew your racists comments? And for your bit of knowledge, there are Swiss Muslims.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Fiskebolle
Nov 29, 09 6:25 PM CST

Why the hate, Shannonals? If you could look past your vile Racism and Ignorance you would know there are no "Swiss" or "Muslims" -- only biological entities. We Are One. Exterminate differences. We Are One. Signed, faithful Multicult devotee.

IN RESPONSE:

Rob
Nov 30, 09 7:20 AM CST

@fondue. You arrogant ass. You attack and ban in the name of liberalism and feel smugly self righteous. He has made some cogent arguments and you have made no counter save for telling him to stop speaking. He has been called names several times in this thread and I havent seen you try to play policman there. Take your partisan view of rules and keep your mouth shut. And feel free to report me for calling you and ass and hurting your feelings.

| 0 minutes ago

JoeQ
Nov 29, 09 9:53 AM CST

Religious fundamentalists of all kinds tend to promote intolerance. Muslims move to an Indonesian island, buy up businesses, and refuse to do fair business with non-muslims. Christians put little fishes on their doors and give special deals to their christian friends. Mormons get other mormmons promoted at corporations. FInally secular people get pissed off and want to do something to stamp it out, and when that happens a lot of innocent folk always get hurt or even killed. The problem is religious fundamentalism of any kind in a world that needs to be basically secular. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Rocket448
Nov 29, 09 10:33 AM CST

@Fondue wants to know: "if Christian, would you want the world to judge you based on the actions of the Klan?" For clarification, is that really a possibility? That the KKK should stand for all Christian sects? I'm not feeling particularly generous towards Islam in general, but you are pointing to a group of rascist hate-mongers and insinuating that they could stand for all Christians? Pointy white hats and all? I think a better comparison would be Roman Catholicism's failure to keep children safe from sexually predatory priests -- you might infer that RC promotes child abuse. And I probably wouldn't argue much, because it does seem that way. I have other questions, but I think they can wait. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Nov 29, 09 11:58 AM CST

In the right conditions, yes Christians and even non-Christian whites could be discriminated against based on actions of the Klan. Look at how easily Muslims, regardless of sect, were/still are demonized based on the actions of terrorists.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Spudsy
Nov 29, 09 1:42 PM CST

The Klan is vile. But a lot of the hate they preach is found in the bible itself. It's the parts that that guy you pay on Sunday doesn't read to you because he really wants the cash. Religions have always come and gone because the social needs and orders that they instill have changed over time. But the current crop of religions have benefited from the printing press and tax laws to outlast their usefulness. If you could invent a modern religion, just like ALL religions have been invented, it would promote environmental saving practices. Example, recycling aluminum rather than avoiding pork, which was a cleanliness issue in ancient times and nothing more. Scientology is a new religion but it's main goal seems to be the accumulating of money.

IN RESPONSE:

Rob
Nov 30, 09 7:23 AM CST

You are the same people that still go through contortions to say that Reverend White wasn't racist and now condemn Christianity in an article about the secular banning of minarets. You are delusional and unbalanced if you actually believe all the contradictory crap you spout.

| 0 minutes ago

Nwambe
Nov 29, 09 10:37 AM CST

Easy solution - If you're going to ban minarets, ban church spires as well. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Spudsy
Nov 29, 09 1:35 PM CST

EXACTLY. My idiot town outlaws any large signage on main street for businesses. But the churches can build any ugly ass old steeple they want to bring in the soon to be fleeced flock. It's all about advertising and it should be regulated like any other profit hungry business.

IN RESPONSE:

easterner
Nov 29, 09 4:31 PM CST

Call to prayer in Islam happens five times each day.....If your a Muslim Living in Switzerland get a watch! Set It and Forget It !

IN RESPONSE:

2-bits
Nov 29, 09 5:36 PM CST

Yes yes, except both the original summary, Sphinx, and myself have already mentioned that there are only 4 of them and that they DON'T MAKE NOISE.

IN RESPONSE:

prowlerzee
Nov 30, 09 3:27 AM CST

Yes, of course, Nwambe. Building codes. If the minarets are dominating the landscape, maybe they and spires both can be limited by size. But landscape is always subject to restrictions. Mosques aren't being banned, minarets are. I think all religious buildings need to be scaled down to community standards. And that is determined by..the community.

| 0 minutes ago

CHRiSTFELD
Nov 29, 09 12:18 PM CST

I'd like to ban guys from wearing baseball caps. I'm pretty sure those guys oppress women more than most white American males do. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

prowlerzee
Nov 30, 09 2:56 AM CST

Pretty funny...except that it's a rare refreshing sight to see any American guy not wearing one of those hideous caps.

| 0 minutes ago

Reader83548336
Nov 29, 09 2:43 PM CST

We've gotta look a the difference between a country's culture and there religion. While there's a lot of exchange of ideas and practices between the two in any given location, there is a difference. Is it the culture of Arab/Middle Eastern countries that oppresses women, like many other countries? Or is it strictly Islam? There's a difference. If the religion is at fault, then it is understandable to pin it for oppression. But if this is the case, we've gotta look at the different sects of the religion and how it is being interpreted throughout the world; strictly or reformed? But if it is the culture - or a warped interpretation of the religion, which then deeply effects the culture - then people outside the religion have no right to blame it. Instead, you've gotta change a culture, which is a very difficult thing to do. Reply

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deezy
Nov 29, 09 3:35 PM CST

Hey hanseatic you can have your opinion however dumb it is, and you can verse us all with your worldy knowledge and big words...but all i have to say your bitching reminds me of an old mantra : "Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics...you may win but you're still retarded" Reply

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Rob
Nov 30, 09 7:27 AM CST

And yet you argue. What's that say about you?

| 0 minutes ago

Fiskebolle
Nov 29, 09 6:11 PM CST

Diversity is great, now, let's do something about the lacking animal diversity in many nations. Why are we keeping the many types of tigers apart, for example, we should mix them up so that we can have diversity. Bengal tigers? Siberian tigers? That's hate! Bring them together and condition them from a young age to love and mate with the other types of tigers. Signed, multicult follower who isn't a hypocrite. Reply

-2

IN RESPONSE:

Laxmi
Nov 29, 09 6:19 PM CST

Tigers aren't people, it is a bad analogy.

IN RESPONSE:

Fiskebolle
Nov 29, 09 6:36 PM CST

How do you know they aren't as sentient and emotionally complex as so-called "humans?" And in any case, what difference does that make? The inherently true and just Multicult concepts of Oneness and Tolerance were never specified to be valid for only one "species" (that's frankly speciesism and cultural imperialism of the most intolerant kind, and downright Hateful and Ignorant). Let us Share the Love for All are The Same.

-2

IN RESPONSE:

Laxmi
Nov 29, 09 7:31 PM CST

The difference between different types of tigers and different types of people is that people don't necessarily try to kill each other as soon as they are exposed.

| 0 minutes ago

outfaux
Nov 29, 09 6:15 PM CST

can't believe this conversation is actually happening. Banning minarets is okay because of the way Muslim women are treated? wtf is wrong with people. Chrisitianity has a history of atrocities against people of other cultures, the Oklahoma bomber was christian, as was the D.C. sniper. Does this mean that we go around destroying every crucifix we find. Switzerland seems to be following policies that remind me of the film Children of Men. Dystopia is being constructed not in the future but right now. Then again, Switzerland has a history of being, how shall I say this, less than equal in it's treatment of races. "Yes, Hitler, we will take all the money you've stolen from the Jews" "No Jews, we will not give it back even after you've proven how it was stolen... oh and the genocide." Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Nov 29, 09 8:48 PM CST

Bottom line: Switzerland is a direct democracy and sovereign nation. Regardless of their history, and the US's isn't that great either (do a little research on native Americans, oh and those slaves we used to have) they get to vote and make their own laws.

IN RESPONSE:

prowlerzee
Nov 30, 09 3:32 AM CST

Speaking of bombs, outfaux, at least the Swiss aren't bombing the mosques, the way the Muslims bombed those ancient statues of Buddha. In fact, the Swiss aren't banning mosques. The Muslim houses of worship are not being bombed or banned. The Swiss are merely protecting their landscape from oversized symbols of oppression, as they have every right to do.

IN RESPONSE:

Sphinx
Nov 30, 09 4:39 AM CST

Prowlerzee - The Taleban bombed the statues of Buddha, the same Taleban that terrorize the other Muslims in Afghanistan and try to cut off their fingers when they vote. Their actions don't represent that of all Muslims, or even all Muslims in Afghanistan. The actions of the Swiss, however, were based on a vote and can absolutely be attributed to them.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Nov 29, 09 8:31 PM CST

As someone else said above, save it for stormfront.

IN RESPONSE:

I_hate_to_say
Nov 29, 09 10:25 PM CST

and see deezy above ,,,,,, lol

IN RESPONSE:

Laxmi
Nov 29, 09 10:31 PM CST

No one has apologized for me being harassed by a racist bully. Hanseatic cries about Muslims bullying women, yet he has done his share of it. He deserves no sympathy.

IN RESPONSE:

zobob
Nov 29, 09 11:30 PM CST

every religion considers people of anothers "infidels." Too bad islam is the fastest growing religion, but its nice to see racist people like u whine. "unlike you we dont live in constant fear..." u may want to look at your hero glen beck.

IN RESPONSE:

riffran
Nov 30, 09 1:06 AM CST

@laxmi....To be honest..I really cannot recall ANY Hindu examples of terrorism or brutality towards women..I may be wrong, but then again I haven't really looked at this time...but the few Hindu people I have had the honor of associating with have all been very kind genteel people. One was an elderly gardener, who had the most immaculate water garden, and would go on forever about how each facet of his garden represented some form of tenet of his faith and harmony with "the universe"..as he put it...nice guy

IN RESPONSE:

prowlerzee
Nov 30, 09 3:40 AM CST

"Bullying" is a pretty mild term for throwing acid in school girls' faces, and stoning and beheading women. These are not isolated instances...they are deplorable cultural "norms" the equivalent of apartheid, which all civilized nations denounced until it was ended. We should be more concerned with denouncing these current human rights abominations than with making these apologist comparisons with other religions' past behaviors.

IN RESPONSE:

Sphinx
Nov 30, 09 4:46 AM CST

Prowlerzee - It comes back to the same thing. The fact that some people in Muslim-majority countries discriminate against women does not give nations the right to discriminate against ALL Muslims, men and women, when Muslims are the minority. The problems you talk about exist, but I don't believe for a second that they are what motivated this vote. Did you see the picture on the top of this page? They're comparing minarets to missiles, as though all signs of Islam are also signs of violence. It's insane. Muslims now make up a quarter of the world. Do they all stand for violence? I would think the world would be a lot bloodier if they did. It's just no logical to compare all Muslims to terrorists, the numbers just don't add up.

IN RESPONSE:

Rob
Nov 30, 09 7:31 AM CST

@Laxmi I didnt see hans call you names yet you certainly called him names.

-1

| 0 minutes ago

Sniffer
Nov 30, 09 1:16 AM CST

Hey All You Muslim Lovers - why don't you take your Mom or your Sister or your Daughter or your Girlfriend or your Wife to Pakistan or Afghanistan & after they get Gang Raped & blamed for it & Stoned to Death tell me how much you LOVE MUSLIMS Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Sphinx
Nov 30, 09 4:50 AM CST

I'm a girl living in a Muslim-majority country. Never been gang-raped, knock on wood :) But good job picking the war zones. How about taking your sister to Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Algeria, Morocco, Indonesia, Egypt, Turkey or any of the other Muslim countries in the world? And tell her to send me a postcard!

| 0 minutes ago

Rob
Nov 30, 09 7:35 AM CST

I love how Muslim oppression is described as individuals not representing all Muslims, yet Christians are just awful and bad in general. You people are pitiful in your self-delusional mind set. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

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Islam • Muslims • Switzerland • minarets • Swiss People's Party • religious conflict

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Swiss Projected to Approve Minaret Ban

Nationalist measure reflects rising anti-Muslim sentiment

Muslim Cops Slam Brit
Anti-Terror Strategy

Say stigmatizing community fosters far-right violence

Muslim Cops Slam Brit Anti-Terror Strategy

Say stigmatizing community fosters far-right violence

Islam Needs
a Civil War

Muslim majority must triumph on the ground and in 'Virtual Afghanistan'

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Muslim majority must triumph on the ground and in 'Virtual Afghanistan'

To Protest Swiss Ban, Exec Puts Minaret Atop Office

Non-Muslim businessman calls country's support 'scandalous'

To Protest Swiss Ban, Exec Puts Minaret Atop Office

Non-Muslim businessman calls country's support 'scandalous'

Islam • Muslims • Switzerland • minarets • Swiss People's Party • religious conflict

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Swiss Projected to Approve Minaret Ban

Nationalist measure reflects rising anti-Muslim sentiment

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Muslim Cops Slam Brit Anti-Terror Strategy

Say stigmatizing community fosters far-right violence

Muslim Cops Slam Brit Anti-Terror Strategy

Say stigmatizing community fosters far-right violence

Thomas Friedman

Islam Needs a Civil War

Muslim majority must triumph on the ground and in 'Virtual Afghanistan'

Islam Needs a Civil War

Muslim majority must triumph on the ground and in 'Virtual Afghanistan'

To Protest Swiss Ban, Exec Puts Minaret Atop Office

Non-Muslim businessman calls country's support 'scandalous'

To Protest Swiss Ban, Exec Puts Minaret Atop Office

Non-Muslim businessman calls country's support 'scandalous'

Islam • Muslims • Switzerland • minarets • Swiss People's Party • religious conflict

MOST POPULAR STORIES

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from our news partners

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Muslim Cops Slam Brit
Anti-Terror Strategy

Islam Needs
a Civil War