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MONDAY, NOVEMBER 23, 2009

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analysis

Book Tour Shows Palin
Hitting a Nerve

'Going Rogue' phenomenon may foreshadow something bigger

Nov 22, 09 2:46 PM CST
Matt Taibbi

Palin: Our First WWE Politician

Pick an asshole, any asshole, and she'll rock the house

Nov 22, 09 10:44 AM CST
editorial

NYT to Blankfein:
Your 'Apology'
Is Bull

Editorial board schools Goldman CEO in true meaning of 'sorry'

Nov 22, 09 4:53 PM CST
the big plan

Beck Will Host Conventions
to Educate America

He's shifting toward political organizer, plans big DC rally

Nov 21, 09 5:06 PM CST
TALK SHOW ROUNDUP

McConnell:
Dems Proceed
at 2010 Peril

Senators hit the Sunday talk shows after health vote

Nov 22, 09 11:15 AM CST
Palin Pulls in Big Bucks
—for Democrats

'Going Rogue' boosts Dem fundraising to new high

Nov 21, 09 6:50 AM CST
Debt-Happy US Faces Payback Time as Rates Rise

Cost of debt to skyrocket $500B in next 10 years

6 hours, 2 minutes ago
Eyes on 2010

Lincoln
Swings to
Center of
Health Debate

Dems come calling as GOP eyes her seat in 2010

Nov 22, 09 1:03 PM CST
who let the paranoids out?

46 Years After Kennedy, the Virus of Hate Is Back

Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert panders to dangerous paranoids

Nov 21, 09 9:08 AM CST
First State Dinner to
Reveal Obama A-Listers

Mad scramble for invitations

11 hours, 48 minutes ago
NO COMMUNION FOR YOU, MY SON

RI Bishop Disses
Kennedy Over
Pro-Choice
Stance

Spat over Patrick's position on abortion escalates

Nov 22, 09 8:23 AM CST
Once-Profitable Services
Are Killing Local Budgets

Utilities, transport, even gambling, are now $3.5B drains

1 hour, 39 minutes ago
Jim DeMint Becomes Hill's Top Tea Partier

South Carolina senator throws weight behind conservative insurgents

5 hours, 43 minutes ago

|NEXT STORY »

Et tu, Barack? Teachers Lose Another Ally

Embattled unions don't want evaluation based on test scores

By Drew Nelles| Posted Sep 20, 09 5:35 PM CDT|

(Newser) – Teachers union members are fuming over President Obama's desire to stay the course and evaluate educators based on student test scores, McClatchy reports. Obama is even threatening to withhold California stimulus money unless the state enshrines the student-teacher performance link into law. "It takes more than the ability to fill in bubbles to be considered an educated person," says one union chief. "We thought President Obama understood that."

California teachers, who lost 18,000 jobs this year, were already battling politicians who want to impose teacher merit pay, remove a cap on charter schools, and turn over schools to private operators. Now Education Secretary Arne Duncan is urging them to think outside the box: "It's not enough to focus only on issues like job security, tenure, compensation and evaluation," he says. "You must become full partners and leaders in education reform."

[Images (3)]

[Quotes (3)]

The president of the Los Angeles teachers union speaks after the local Board of Education voted to adopt a resolution that may turn a third of the district's schools over to private operators. (AP Photo/Reed Saxon)

In this photo taken June 8, 2009, Corinna Lefkowitz, an English teacher, hands out final exams at Richmond High School in Richmond, Calif. (AP Photo/Marcio Jose Sanchez)

President Barack Obama pauses in the East Room of the White House in Washington, Thursday, Sept. 17, 2009. (AP Photo/Charles Dharapak)

« Prev« Prev | Next »Next » Slideshow

Our perception is it's more of the same, and that's not good, because we thought we were going to be able to change something, make some true reform in public education. - David Sanchez, president of the California Teachers Association

The only place the NAACP can be is with this governor. If the teacher unions put a better proposal on the table, we would stand with them. - Alice Huffman, California NAACP president

« Prev« Prev | Next »Next » Slideshow

11.23.09

Books Are Bad for You

11.20.09

The Health-Care Wars Have Just Begun

32 comments

VIEWING:

Reader64481089
Sep 20, 09 5:40 PM CDT

"Embattled unions don't want evaluation based on test scores"..What do that wish it based upon, how well the kid handles an AK47? WTF Reply

IN RESPONSE:

jamerican
Sep 20, 09 6:45 PM CDT

Most of the teachers in our public school don't care about teaching the students...it seems they just want to earn a paycheck and have money to buy their own pot. It is embarassing and they should either produce or be replaced just like anyone else in a business environment.

-5

IN RESPONSE:

shonangreg
Sep 20, 09 6:57 PM CDT

If they just wanted a paycheck, they would have never gone into teaching -- at least not stateside. I think the problem is threefold: (1) Though teaching is an intellectual field, there are dumb teachers in their midst. This situation came about in part because teacher pay was too low to make it a competitive job market. *Anyone* was welcome. (hint hint Republicans) (2) No group willingly gives up power -- unions especially. Even though it may benefit them in the long run, the power will have to be taken from them. (3) Testing teachers for competence with a paper test is a bit like testing policeman using Grand Theft Auto (video game.) They need to be strongly evaluated primarily in the classroom, not just on a paper test. ........................ So, I agree unions need to have the power to keep poor teachers in the classroom taken away from them, but the mechanism needs to be a more practical standard than *just* a paper test.

IN RESPONSE:

Nwambe
Sep 20, 09 7:06 PM CDT

The thing is, if you can't afford money for textbooks or computers, your standardized test scores will go down. Is that the fault of the teacher? What about kids who drop out of school for family issues? Should teachers have to account for that? Finally, if teachers are held to the standardized test, then guess what, they'll teach to the test and only to the test. The kids won't actually learn anything.

IN RESPONSE:

tman3220
Sep 20, 09 11:42 PM CDT

Well, you guys aint gonna believe this, but I completely agree with Obama on this. I'm proud of the man.

IN RESPONSE:

prowlerzee
Sep 21, 09 12:19 AM CDT

tman, Zerobama is a Trojan Horse, that is, Ass, for your side. So, no surprise at all.

-3

IN RESPONSE:

Janniel
Sep 21, 09 8:05 AM CDT

It should be based upon the teachers effectiveness. That would include test scores. It should also include having the teachers tested on the subjects they are teaching...if they don't know it, they can't teach it. It should also be based upon an evaluation of how the teacher interacts with children--- whether the teacher can command respect and keep the kids attentive and interested in learning.

| 0 minutes ago

lthurman
Sep 20, 09 5:45 PM CDT

No, most schools want it based on football scores. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

tman3220
Sep 20, 09 11:47 PM CDT

lol, aint it the truth.

-1

| 0 minutes ago

BlahBlahBlah
Sep 20, 09 5:49 PM CDT

We have had teachers striking in in Washington state. I know, teachers striking, big shock. They where ordered back into class by a judge and all fined 1000 dollars and 200 dollars a day for every day they continued to strike. Of course, the administration folded and gave the teachers what they wanted. You may say win for the teachers. I say that I am sick of teachers being able to hold education hostage for their personal or professional gain. Occasionally it will be for the benefit of the kids but that is usually a bi product. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Reader64481089
Sep 20, 09 6:54 PM CDT

I had a contract to take care of labs at several charter schools in several "rough" areas. The students literally tore the computers open and ripped out the CPU to avoid doing their work, the worst part of the entire thing was the "Teacher" sat in the front of the class and had clear view of all and claimed not to have ever seen a thing. This happened to up to 40 computers in each lab in over 11 different schools, to even open the case the CRT monitor had to be taken off the desktop computer to acces the case and to do that a student had to stand to remove the computer. The labs were locked any time the teacher left the class and a Teachers aid would always remain with students even if the teacher had to leave the room, students were never left alone. Then the teachers wonder why a raise need to be tied to how well they teach, I am dead serious I just do not understand the teachers or their unions logic. I feel strongly parents are also just as responsible as the teacher to make sure the students are there to learn, not learn to be thugs and garbage.

IN RESPONSE:

shonangreg
Sep 20, 09 7:09 PM CDT

I think classroom disciple is a different matter than teacher pay and teacher quality. Rotating all new teachers into place would not resolve bad student behavior at all. The "inmates" are largely in control. The parents need to be *forced* to be involved. And the government/state/police need to stop busting marijuana smokers and other recreational drug users. Junkies need to go to the hospital, not the jail. This would *undermine gangs* and *rebuild respect for the law and good behavior*. In places where classroom behavior does not improve after that, we would need to consider police helping patrol the schools -- under the guise of the principal -- not just looking for drugs anymore.

IN RESPONSE:

thejoint00
Sep 20, 09 8:42 PM CDT

teacher saleries are barely median wage jobs. if you want better school teachers, you have to do it within the limits of thier job. other wise you have abetter chance of getting an education from the 30 year old drive through clerk at McDonald's

-1

| 0 minutes ago

Dr.Y.Dino
Sep 20, 09 5:50 PM CDT

Fine, let them publish their criteria for teacher's performance!! If they think the only thing important is seniority, then let them go on the record as such. Let's resolve the issue of teacher performance BEFORE we hand over our complete healthcare system to Obama and the unions. The unions have not done much to help improve the quality of the education our kids get (other than whine about pay). Let them take some responsibility for the millions they receive in dues. Remember folks, if you like the schools, you're gonna LOVE ObamaCare hospitals and clinics!!! Reply

-2

IN RESPONSE:

odowd80
Sep 20, 09 6:22 PM CDT

So how do administrators determine the pay increases for Special Ed teachers? Or instrumental music teachers? Gym or Art teachers? Teachers get paid shit and have to put up with a lot. If you think being a teacher is gravy then I encourage you to be one yourself. If you keep attacking teachers, you'll find yourself without any. Why would any talented, sane person want to become a teacher? What's the incentive?

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Jayster999
Sep 20, 09 6:46 PM CDT

Big thumbs up. These idiots want Obummer to do for health care what they've done to our education system. Incidentally, and dumbing down doctors through affirmative action is actually a part of Obummers agenda.

-4

IN RESPONSE:

ljm
Sep 20, 09 11:58 PM CDT

@odowd80- how about 2.5 months off every summer, two weeks at Christmas, a week for spring break and various bank holiday throughout the year- conservative estimate of 13 weeks vacation every year I agree teachers have a difficult job but underpaid... I'm not so sure. If the average American pro-rated his/her pay by 11 weeks (allowing for two weeks of paid vacation) I think they would be in a far worse postion.

IN RESPONSE:

odowd80
Sep 21, 09 9:09 AM CDT

@ljm: then why is there a lack of good teachers if the incentive structure is so fantastic? Are you a teacher? Why not become one?

IN RESPONSE:

ljm
Sep 21, 09 4:29 PM CDT

@odowd80- I don't think it is because of the pay. Looking a the BLS web site and pro-rating for a 41 ww year, teacher median pay is in line with the median income for wage earners with 4 year degrees. Teachers also have pretty good state retirement plans and insurance plans. I would imagine more people don't go into the profession because the right has resoundingly and unfairly demonized the teaching profession. Still, for nine months of work, the compensation isn't out of line. Just out of curiosity, are you a teacher?

| 0 minutes ago

justme
Sep 20, 09 6:36 PM CDT

Never taught in a classroom but I am from a family of teachers. The biggest complaint that I hear is about restrictions that get in the way of teaching. Most are not afraid of evaluation if tthe rules are fair for everyone. Student scores alone will only discourage teachers from taking on more challenging students. Remember that senior teachers can bid for the "better" classrooms. Most of my relatives stay where they are because they like the kids and the challenges that go with the less advantaged kids. They might opt out if it meant going to schools where the more privileged kids get better scores and their teachers get better pay. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Jayster999
Sep 20, 09 6:43 PM CDT

Awesome! It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling when Barry pisses off important parts of his left wing constituency. I hate this guys agenda but it sure is fun watching things blow up in his face when he tries to march outside the party goose-step. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

armywife
Sep 20, 09 6:48 PM CDT

well he wouldnt be the first president to disappoint his base...or the last.

| 0 minutes ago

armywife
Sep 20, 09 6:46 PM CDT

it is clear that none of you, excepting justme, know any teachers. i can second justme's statement - all six of my aunts, and my mother, as well as several of my close friends are teachers, and he is right - the testing system in america right now is a poor reflection of how much the children actually know and also a poor reflection of how well their teacher is doing. teachers are now forced to teach "for the tests" and kids dump the knowledge as soon as the test is over, so there is no actual learning going on. teachers are the troops on the ground and teachers need to have more control over teaching methods - they know what works and what doesnt. and the status quo that obama has just decided to perpetuate does NOT work. another disappointment.... Reply

IN RESPONSE:

prowlerzee
Sep 21, 09 12:14 AM CDT

It may be another disappointment, but it would come as no surprise if you'd have been paying attention. Zerobama has never been a friend to the public schools.

| 0 minutes ago

yoeydude
Sep 20, 09 7:21 PM CDT

jah dickheads experience with the public education system deserves some attention ,.... because in his case , his teachers really did not give a rats ass about his education ,...... that much we can be sure of , .... most intelligent folks have memories of a teacher that really made a difference to them ,..... Teachers are some of THE most important contributers to a civilized world ,...... why is it the least educated among us , are the loudest and most damaging to the very pillars of society ? Reply

IN RESPONSE:

prowlerzee
Sep 21, 09 12:16 AM CDT

You're coming through loud and clear, yoey. It's too bad your 4th grade teacher could not impress basic punctuation upon you.

| 0 minutes ago

thejoint00
Sep 20, 09 8:50 PM CDT

Teaching used to be primarily a woman's career field and the income was supplemental to her husband's. But someone came along with an equal rights/equal pay attitude and now the tax payers have to pony up the dough to keep people with a 4 year accredited bachelor degree in the school system and away from McDonalds where they can earn more money Reply

-2

| 0 minutes ago

npkimmey
Sep 20, 09 9:09 PM CDT

Shouldn't the title read "Et toi, Barack"? Reply

IN RESPONSE:

northeast
Sep 21, 09 11:58 AM CDT

Proper Latin conjugation? You must not have gone to public school.

IN RESPONSE:

npkimmey
Sep 21, 09 3:01 PM CDT

Unfortunately, I do go to public school.

| 0 minutes ago

oldgoat
Sep 21, 09 2:46 AM CDT

Well you have a problem with getting teachers now. This will certainly make it worse. Does anybody realize that it only takes a student or two in a classroom to ruin a class? That getting a student out is sometimes almost impossible. Even now with the NCLB tests it has teachers teaching the test instead of the subject. Yes there are bad teachers in the classroom, but until they change it to where the teachers can have the control of the classroom and the pay scale the good ones don't stay. I think that half the new teachers only last about 3 years before figuring out that the pay doesn't match the problems they encounter. Any of you that think it is such a great deal are free to get your teaching certificate and show how it ought to be done. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

lindamae
Sep 22, 09 12:42 AM CDT

There are matters out of control of even the most seasoned teachers so students do fail. I meet them as adults trying to earn a GED and they all tell me that they just knew it all and no one or nothing could have convinced them the need for education so they quit. Some quit when they are 18 and have no credits and some quit when they are 8th graders but they need to fill their seat until they are old enough to quit. Perhaps Obama, rock stars, sports stars, etc. can spend more time and energy pointing out that education is knowledge - and it is with knowledge that we can live productive - and happier - lives. We need to have a skill that will enable us to earn a living. Obama should have hammered that point home during his presentation. I couldn't believe his first thought was to ask kids how them could help HIM. I was glad that he changed his speech in order to convince kids that education was important. He would have been more effective if he had given this speech at a time when both parents and children could have sat together to listen to it. Parents, our society, friends, the media - all affect the choices our kids make about education - and I include academic and non academic plans of study. We need more plumbers as much as we need another lawyer. Perhaps more so. Also, the tests that our kids take evaluate their mastery of skills which make up the test. If our kids don't do well, then we need to reteach those basic skills so that they can proceed and succeed. Parents - read to your babies. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

View all 32 comments »

education • Barack Obama • California • reform • NAACP • teachers' unions • teachers • Arne Duncan • stimulus funds

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Et tu, Barack? Teachers Lose Another Ally