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SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 2009

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Anthropologist: Modern Male Is 'Worst' Man Ever

We're not as robust, Aussie argues in new book

By Mary Papenfuss| Posted Oct 14, 09 5:00 AM CDT|

(Newser) – California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is such a girly man by Neanderthal standards that some caveman's wife could have kicked his ass in arm wrestling, an Australian anthropologist argues in his new book. In fact, Peter McAllister calls modern males the "worst" men in history, at least when it comes to physical prowess. Australian Aboriginals were faster, Neanderthals were stronger and Roman legions could run at least a marathon a day, he argues.

"These people were much more robust," says McAllister, who has written Manthropology: The Science of the Inadequate Modern Male. Clearly, though, they weren't as handsome by modern-day female standards, and "we wouldn't want to go back to the brutality of those days," McAllister concedes.

This picture provided by the American Museum of Natural History shows a mural depicting Neanderthal life. (AP Photo/American Museum of Natural History)

What an ape. (©hairymuseummatt)

Not much to look at, though. (©erix!)

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41 comments

VIEWING:

armywife
Oct 14, 09 5:10 AM CDT

aww...this article makes me miss ol' corona king. he'd have had a ball with this one, linking it to the "liberal fascists" and so forth. good times... Reply

+10

IN RESPONSE:

George_Taylor
Oct 14, 09 5:20 AM CDT

I could say that third pic looks like bill maher, could that set it off?

| 0 minutes ago

Aelius28
Oct 14, 09 5:28 AM CDT

This isn't news to the scientifically informed. Modern humans are distinct from archaic humans (Cro Magnon) mostly BECAUSE of this fact. The article is misleading when it speaks of the Roman legions running a marathon a day. A marathon is 24 miles. The Roman legions were required, at most, to march "military pace" for 24 Roman miles (22 U.S. miles). Military pace was about 4.5 mph. We know this, because we know it took them 5 hours to accomplish a routine march and we know that their march was 22 miles. 4.5mph is a fast walk, only half as fast as jogging. So it's misleading at best. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Oct 14, 09 5:49 AM CDT

To the slightly informed, there was no such thing as a US mile. In fact, to the even less informed, there was no such thing as the US.

-2

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 14, 09 5:59 AM CDT

Yes, but since damn near every other Western nation utilizes Metric, I figure it'd avoid the most confusion if I specified U.S. And I don't know which cave you spend most of your time in, but the US has been around for at least a couple hundred years...

IN RESPONSE:

EileenRocks
Oct 14, 09 7:15 AM CDT

Um, in Fondue's favor, he was saying that there was no "US mile", or US for that matter, during Roman times, which is entirely true.

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 14, 09 7:20 AM CDT

Ohh, I see. Sorry, I get what you mean. I know, the reason I use the modern mile is because - first of all - the article mentions the soldiers running a marathon. We define a "marathon" as a specific length (24 miles and some yards) but the Romans didn't have the modern measurement of "mile" and so for it to make sense in context I put in brackets the amount of modern miles. Had I known it'd cause such a storm in a teapot I'd have fucked the Roman mile and just used modern miles :P

IN RESPONSE:

stormkite
Oct 14, 09 8:33 AM CDT

Marathon distance is 26.2 statute miles. Has been for every marathon I've ever done... and there have been days, usually two or three after as well, where I've felt every last foot of that.

IN RESPONSE:

shonangreg
Oct 14, 09 8:37 AM CDT

Back from the numbers quibbling, Aelius you said that physique is what separates Cro-Magnon from Homo sapiens sapiens? I've always heard this defined *only* in cultural terms.

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 14, 09 8:45 AM CDT

Actually, you could be right. I've only been into the physical aspect of it, so I'll take your word for it then.

IN RESPONSE:

A.Carpenter
Oct 14, 09 11:01 AM CDT

4.5mph may be a fast walk, but it is in NO WAY half as fast as jogging...unless you run a 6:40 mile. Going at that speed every day for that long is still remarkable, and I don't think that most people nowadays could do it. Blame our brains for making things that take us off of our feet.

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 14, 09 12:09 PM CDT

Jogging speed is about 8-11 mph. And modern day infantry are similarly expected to march long distances. But remember, we're not conditioned for that kind of thing like Roman infantry were.

| 0 minutes ago

Aelius28
Oct 14, 09 5:32 AM CDT

Oh by the way, homo sapiens are not descendants of the Neanderthals. The Neanderthals were a different species of "homo" which died out contemporary to early humans (Cro Magnon). This was about 25,000 years ago. They were very similar to homo sapiens, they were even bigger and stronger than Cro Magnon. They even had bigger brains. But they weren't human. They would have been nearly indistinguishable from human, but they were homo neanderthalis not homo sapiens and thus we cannot really judge homo sapiens with homo neanderthalis unless we can also judge the Neanderthals to the gorilla, or Gigantipithicus. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

carpenocturne
Oct 14, 09 6:08 AM CDT

Aelius, where the hell did you get your facts? They're amateur at best. Earlier humans were TALLER and wittier than the stalky, small-brained Neanderthals, allowing their brains to adapt to problem solving tactics such as using long-range tools instead of melee tactics the Neanderthals used--sheer proof their brains were larger and more capable than Neanderthals. Furthermore, Neanderthals had a wide set chest and hips, and a flatter skull (limiting brain size) to weather the dangerous blows of angry animals during attack. They were not nor could not be tall because of their very stature! To say they aren't human is arbitrary. There are a several groups of modern scientists who postulate Cro Magnum and Neanderthals may have interbred during their cohabitation, which only provides further evidence they were human enough to share compatible chromosomes. Gigantopithicus was not a gorilla any more than Neanderthals are modern humans. You need to go back to school, chump.

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 14, 09 6:14 AM CDT

Sorry, you're WRONG, Neanderthals had bigger brains than homo sapiens. They weren't as smart as we are - almost but not quite - but they had bigger brains, this is a fact and I can prove it. From Wikipedia, fully referenced: "Neanderthal cranial capacity is often thought to have been as large or larger than modern humans, indicating that their brain size may have been the same or greater. In 2008, a group of scientists made a study using three-dimensional computer-assisted reconstructions of Neanderthal infants based on fossils found in Russia and Syria that shows that they had brains as large as ours at birth and larger than ours as adults.[8]" And if you're going to whine like so many of my online opponents that I'm wrong because I use Wikipedia, then feel free to a) fuck off, or b) find your own brain size information freely available on the internet from any source you so desire.

IN RESPONSE:

carpenocturne
Oct 14, 09 6:23 AM CDT

You seriously just admitted to using Wikipedia? Well then, you can quote a site that uses obscure citations all you want, but until you find a scientific journal that says otherwise, I'll count on my bachelors in Anthropology at a four year college. Unlike you, I don't seek approval or give myself thumbs up to make myself sound more legitimate.

-4

IN RESPONSE:

carpenocturne
Oct 14, 09 6:31 AM CDT

Furthermore your argument references modern humans after tens of thousands of years of cranial reduction, not the Cro Magnum counterparts I mentioned. If you do know how to read, I said earlier human brains were larger and more capable than Neanderthals.

-2

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 14, 09 6:32 AM CDT

You sound like you're about 62 years old. Do you have idea how Wikipedia works? You don't take what it says for granted, you look at the fucking references. Are you daft? What do you think the square-bracketed numbers mean? The reference links to a story citing a peer-reviewed article in the Proceedings of the National Academies of Science. Fucking reliable enough for you? You pompous piece of shit, you have no respect for anyone else in a discussion. I love being an arrogant ass when people deserve it, but you responded to my innocuous post with unwarranted breathtaking condescension. Unlike YOU I don't have to make myself feel better by verbally disparaging other people.

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 14, 09 6:49 AM CDT

And no, if you actually read the article from PNAS (it's not long), it explicitly indicates that the neonatal Neanderthal brain is as large as the homo sapiens, and that it's actually larger as an adult.

IN RESPONSE:

shonangreg
Oct 14, 09 8:27 AM CDT

carpe and Aelius, please. Can we get off the insults and back on topic? In a sense, you're both right. You're just arguing about how you personally envision the relationship between neanderthal and Homo sapiens, each in your own, preferred terms. Neanderthal were more robust -- sapiens more gracile. Homo sapiens is about the same height, so due to being thin they are proportionately taller. (They're almost the same height; the actual difference is trivial...) And their brain casings are long known to have been larger. I can quote 1470cc for neaderthal off the top of my head. Sapiens I don't remember -- just slightly less. The actual difference is rather trivial... However, the internecine warfare carpen speaks of is true. Is it not, Aelius?

-1

IN RESPONSE:

shonangreg
Oct 14, 09 8:44 AM CDT

Sorry, but I might have confused the two of you. Aelius, I wish you would keep a sense of perspective -- about what the disagreement is. And Carpe. The traditional view has been that neanderthal were larger brained. I don't know when this changed, or what qualifications there were initially. But that is what everyone said. And I have nothing to do with the article in question.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Snowleopard
Oct 14, 09 11:21 AM CDT

Aeilus28: Why the hostility man? Are you feeling ok?

IN RESPONSE:

Rob
Oct 14, 09 11:49 AM CDT

Homo neanderthalensis had larger brains but smaller frontal lobes; take from that what you will. I was surprised to see in this article that the author included Roman legions since the Romans were pretty much the same as us. The difference is that they were agrarian and trained as solders on top of that, making them better able to maintain the pace, a pace I am quite sure could be easily maintained by a Navy Seal. That said, phenotype is the interaction of genotype and environment. Since the Western World is somewhat more inviting than Europe 20,000 years ago, we would of course be physically different although maintain the genetic building blocks to return to that era's toughness. And please do not forget, not all of the world lives under the same level physical work. During my time in the African bush I discovered that even a very old woman's body is tough as nails and feels like wood from her muscle mass. If I am not mistaken, we are the same species.

IN RESPONSE:

Rocket448
Oct 14, 09 9:46 PM CDT

Neanderthals are cousins of ours, ok. So, in comparison to earlier members of sapiens, is a modern male as robust as he once was? I for one have no doubt he's not. Our species has been culled in reverse by wars in which the best - the very best men on two legs - were killed on fields, in trenches, and in the forests. For example, an entire generation of young adult European men was actually, truly, lost to our species in the trenches of the first world war. On all the continents, wars of conquest rebellion and colonization ended family lines, allowing less robust males to mate. I am not pushing a political point or trying to sensationalize this issue, I'm just trying to make a reasonable case for a decline in our specie's general fitness.

| 0 minutes ago

Snowleopard
Oct 14, 09 6:18 AM CDT

This article's ridiculous, if humans were really that inferior, why is it that were still around and they now aren't? We homosapiens were faster and smarter, and oh, yeah, and apparently we hunted and ate them too: http://www.newser.com/story/59235/how-did-neanderthals-die-we-ate-them.html Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 14, 09 6:22 AM CDT

You clearly have little understanding of evolution, Snowleopard. Are you familiar with the Gigantipithicus? A big badass fucking gorilla that makes modern-day gorillas look like ants. Guess what happened? *Gasp* they're all gone! They just... died. They could squash us like a bug, but they died. Why? Because evolution is NOT a battle of strength, its a battle for survivability. And humans - while weaker - survived because we could think abstractly. Similarly, ever head of Haast's eagle? It was like 3 times the size of modern-day eagles and lived in New Zealand until relatively recently. Guess what happened? Their favourite prey, the giant moah, was killed by human settlers and so the eagle ran out of its primary food source and died.

IN RESPONSE:

Snowleopard
Oct 14, 09 11:17 AM CDT

What are you, a 12 year old with his first science book? How is anything I just said wrong? What bothers me about this article is saying "Modern Male Is 'Worst' Man Ever", and yet we were more adaptable, and in your own words, had more of an ability to think abstractly. btw, I was born in new zealand so I don't need a lecture about its natural history, although moas (no 'h') were very cool creatures. shame they died out though.

IN RESPONSE:

Rob
Oct 14, 09 11:53 AM CDT

Evolution is based on fitness, and fitness is how many babies you make that live to reproductive age. Modern humans are fleet, smart problem solvers that made more babies that survived than Neanderthals did.

IN RESPONSE:

Aelius28
Oct 14, 09 12:11 PM CDT

Snowleopard, because the article isn't saying we're inferior. it's saying we're physically inferior, so when you objected to article I figure you had read it and had the understanding that it's talking about our physical abilities.

IN RESPONSE:

zik
Oct 14, 09 12:48 PM CDT

Evolution is a science of adaptation, not badassery...

| 0 minutes ago

riffran
Oct 14, 09 6:46 AM CDT

carefull A..using real facts just pisses them off...good post on the paleo stuff, makes for intresting reading Reply

| 0 minutes ago

armywife
Oct 14, 09 7:21 AM CDT

that one guy really does look like Bill Maher, now that hammer points it out. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

A.Carpenter
Oct 14, 09 11:07 AM CDT

Really, though, evolutionarily speaking, barring any catastrophic computer/electricity failure, the human physical form will always be devolving. By inventing new technology to make things easier, we are needing to use our bodies less and less, and the more successful people in terms of passing on their genes are less likely to have any type of physical prowess. Furthermore, our excellent medical capabilities allow genes with malfunctions and weaknesses to live and propagate where in the past they would die out. Although it was funny to hear that we are prettier. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Snowleopard
Oct 14, 09 11:19 AM CDT

everything you said is true, until we get into genetic engineering. at that point we're going to be playing a more active role in our own evolution.

| 0 minutes ago

JoeQ
Oct 14, 09 1:13 PM CDT

A Neanderthal probably had to eat like a horse to fuel that souped up body engine. Could have been they also died young, like say 35 which would have been bad for developing any culture. There is plenty of genetic evidence that we humans went through a time when our numbers were very slim. Perhaps the Neanderthals did so at the same time for the same reason and just didn't make it through that tough period. Maybe its just dumb luck. Its no surprise, though, that there is only one surviving species of human. The way it is we kill each other over the tiniest of differences. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Wonka
Oct 14, 09 1:45 PM CDT

The Neanderthals bear a striking resemblance to Rush Limbaugh. Hmmmm....... Reply

| 0 minutes ago

SwedxSimon
Oct 14, 09 7:14 PM CDT

To judge modern males as the ''worst in history'' solely because we are physically weaker is nothing but an opinion, keep it to the facts please. Interesting how he points out that we shouldn't go back to the brutality while iindirectly saying that the weaker you are, the ''worse'' you are. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

SwedxSimon
Oct 14, 09 7:21 PM CDT

What a fool. To judge modern males as the ''worst in history'' solely because we are physically weaker (and thereby indirectly mean that the weaker men are physically = the worse) is nothing but an opinion, keep it to the facts please. Also interesting how he speaks against the brutality of those days while (logically) projecting the attitude of that the weaker humans are, the more ''worthless''. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

yummines
Oct 14, 09 7:48 PM CDT

Well humans survived because they were smarter, not stronger. If everything depended on strength in the world, as if there were no weapons or tools, then humans would be screwed. Luckily humans have a high iq and aposable (correct me if i spelled it wrong) thumbs so we are the top of pretty much any living thing. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Fiskebolle
Oct 15, 09 12:49 AM CDT

If neanderthals were alive today, they'd be considered a different race rather than a different species. And race doesn't exist. Ergo, neanderthals didn't exist. Flawless doubleplusgood logic. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

bewilderbeast
Oct 15, 09 8:11 AM CDT

DUH! OF COURSE "modern males" are the worst. The man underfoot is ALWAYS the worst one. The mythical one is ALWAYS better. Don't need no scientist - just ask any woman. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

View all 41 comments »

men • Arnold Schwarzenegger • modern man • anthropology • Neanderthals • cavemen • muscle strength • Aboriginal • anthropologist • Peter McAllister

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Anthropologist: Modern Male Is 'Worst' Man Ever

We're not as robust, Aussie argues in new book

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MORE ABOUT: evolution • BBC • fossil • homo sapien • bone • anthropology • Homo habilis • Homo erectus • Neanderthals • Romania • caves • cavemen • ice age

men • Arnold Schwarzenegger • modern man • anthropology • Neanderthals • cavemen • muscle strength • Aboriginal • anthropologist • Peter McAllister

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