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SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 2009

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the big plan

Beck Will Host Conventions
to Educate America

He's shifting toward political organizer, plans big DC rally

Nov 21, 09 5:06 PM CST
Senate Democrats Clear
Health Care Hurdle, 60-39

Reid gets 60 votes to open full debate after Thanksgiving recess

Nov 21, 09 7:13 PM CST
Palin Pulls in Big Bucks
—for Democrats

'Going Rogue' boosts Dem fundraising to new high

Nov 21, 09 6:50 AM CST
demagogue alert

Lawmaker Paints Target on Barack Obama's Back

Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert panders to dangerous paranoids

Nov 21, 09 9:08 AM CST
Reid Gets 60th Vote:
Holdout Lincoln Agrees

She'll allow health care bill to move forward; vote at 8pm

Nov 21, 09 1:51 PM CST
Matt Taibbi

Palin: Our First WWE Politician

Pick an asshole, any asshole, and she'll rock the house

3 hours, 7 minutes ago
HE'S GOT A BOOK OUT, TOO

Beck to Unveil
'Big Plan' at
Saturday Rally

Righty pundit OK with destroying Dems and GOP

Nov 20, 09 8:07 PM CST
Billboard Links Obama to Jihad

Colo. car dealership wants this opinion heard

Nov 20, 09 8:42 PM CST
Neglected Ind. Fans Boo Palin

Hecklers accuse her of 'quitting on the job'

Nov 20, 09 3:50 PM CST
NO COMMUNION FOR YOU, MY SON

RI Bishop Disses
Kennedy Over
Pro-Choice
Stance

Spat over Patrick's position on abortion escalates

5 hours, 29 minutes ago
Limbaugh's Wrong: Gallup's Obama Approval Below 50%

New survey is latest disappointment for President

Nov 20, 09 2:03 PM CST
Obama's Stimulus Finally
Gets Some Respect

Warring economists agree that it has helped—if not enough

Nov 21, 09 6:21 AM CST
TALK SHOW ROUNDUP

McConnell:
Dems Proceed
at 2010 Peril

Senators hit the Sunday talk shows after health vote

2 hours, 36 minutes ago

|NEXT STORY »

MUTINY!

Conservatives Declare War on GOP

New York race just the beginning, activists say

By Kevin Spak| Posted Nov 2, 09 8:36 AM CST|

(Newser) – The conservative coup in New York’s special election shows just how little control the GOP has over the ascendant tea party movement—it's a mutiny, and it's just gaining steam, activists say. The folks who helped push Republican Dede Scozzafava out of the race in favor of conservative Doug Hoffman tell Politico they’re itching for the next showdown. “The Hoffman campaign was the beginning. It was not the climax. There are going to be other conflicts,” promised one protest organizer, citing Charlie Crist as the next big target.

RedState.com is calling for the heads of party leaders for backing Scozzafava. “Republicans are going to have to come our way,” the site's founder tells Politico. Many feel betrayed by Republicans after the big-government Bush years, when Tom DeLay asked them to accept earmarks for the good of the party. “I don’t give a crap about party,” declares another tea party organizer. “Grass-roots activists don’t care about party.”

[Images (1)]

[Quotes (1)]

Evelyn Medlock cheers along with several hundred "Tea Party Express" protesters Monday, Aug. 31, 2009, in Las Vegas. (AP Photo/David Becker)

View larger images >>

« Prev« Prev | Next »Next » Slideshow

Republicans are going to have to come our way. Their level of disingenuousness is disgusting. - Erick Erickson, founder and editor
of RedState

« Prev« Prev | Next »Next » Slideshow

11.20.09

The Health-Care Wars Have Just Begun

11.19.09

Sarah Palin Deserves Some More Attention

98 comments

VIEWING:

Snarfeh
Nov 2, 09 8:42 AM CST

This is getting more and more interesting every day. Soon, anyone with even a shred of intellect will be gone from this party. :::sigh::: I am really enjoying the spectacle. Reply

+33

IN RESPONSE:

Reader64481089
Nov 2, 09 8:45 AM CST

You are not alone as many of us think it is a wonderful thing watching the destruction of that party from it's own hands....................the more they push out the better.

+19

IN RESPONSE:

jamerican
Nov 2, 09 9:07 AM CST

Good...its about tiime the conservatives broke rank with the republicans and sent a message that they had better get back to fundamental morals and principles that made this country great. If not the majority of conservatives will start a new party that most of Amercia believes in.

-8

IN RESPONSE:

shonangreg
Nov 2, 09 9:48 AM CST

Wow. I have a hard time disagreeing with you tea baggers now that you've openly declared war on the Republican Party. What I can't believe is that you charge into this battle without saying a single thing that makes any sense. Conservatism? You don't even know what socialism is; your great enemy. Fundamental morals? Like exaggerating in almost every comment you make? Like distorting what your opponents stand for? Like where the President was born? What his religion "secretly" is? How communists, er, socialists, er fascists are lurking behind every corner? Everything is a conspiracy to you people. You have no truth, no value, nothing but VOLUME. You're empty.

+23

IN RESPONSE:

Face-Of-RNC
Nov 2, 09 9:49 AM CST

Conservatives have no more morals and principles than anyone else .You should learn to live with all Americans instead of dreaming of an uprising against the majority that can never happen. America's face is no longer lily white. And it is not a face of hate for those who don't look the same as a certain class of people. Conservatism is fine, except in the U. S. and Great Brittain it seems to leave out the needs and wants of an overwhelming majority. And it's too willing to grant corporate power over people's lives. Governing is best done from the center, not from any extreme position.

+19

IN RESPONSE:

dontlikeyou
Nov 2, 09 10:01 AM CST

{{{{ Soon, anyone with even a shred of intellect will be gone from this party. }}}} --- I love it when Libs comment on the workings of the GOP. Face it lefties, you do not converse with real people in America so you have no idea what the GOP is like. The GOP once was just like the American people. But lately, the GOP has been trying to be more like you, basically, out of touch libs. The good hearted, decent folk are rebelling against the GOP and I say it is about time.

-14

IN RESPONSE:

dontlikeyou
Nov 2, 09 10:07 AM CST

Todays poll of the NY Race.. Sienna Poll.. Hoffman (Conservative) 41% - Owens (D) 36%. ------- PPP Poll -- Hoffman (C) 51% Owens (D) 34%...................... bye bye liberal republicans. We hardly knew ya !

-8

IN RESPONSE:

riffran
Nov 2, 09 10:20 AM CST

Maybe the conservatives, are pushing out something.......and flushing the toilet afterwards. The GOP is being put on notice by the very people they are SUPPOSED to be but fail at....

IN RESPONSE:

johntitor
Nov 2, 09 11:13 AM CST

*facepalm* Thank you Riffran. This isn't the GOP. Whats giving this movement speed is young people. We ARE NOT republicans. WE ARE NOT GOP. F&*^ the GOP. Yes there are a lot of stupid people out there. Many call themselves republicans. I think you all have a problem with retards who blindly (last F-ing forever years) follow those who call themselves "conservative" Why so much support for Ron Paul? Hes different, supported by this very group (those estranged from the GOP) Please, remember that unless you are for statism you are a conservative. (yes that means every post above me)

-1

IN RESPONSE:

BlueAyez
Nov 2, 09 2:22 PM CST

The problem is that from the ashes of the GOP is rising a new ultra-conservative party. We've seen this before -- Germany 1936...anybody?

IN RESPONSE:

dontlikeyou
Nov 2, 09 3:38 PM CST

Oh, please. Hitler has got nothing on Nancy Pelosi and the thug from chicago.

-9

IN RESPONSE:

bewilderbeast
Nov 3, 09 7:15 AM CST

@Face-of-RNC, I hope everyone reads your post and absorbs it. Here's to Americans stopping the in-fighting and getting back to the job at hand (which, of course, is on American soil, not overseas). Here's to people learning to vote their OWN best interests, rather than parroting a line they have been sold by corporate crooks.

| 0 minutes ago

tomodachi
Nov 2, 09 8:47 AM CST

I remember summer 2008... how giddy the GOP was over the length of time it took the democrats to decide between Obama and Clinton. And here we are today... with their party totally falling apart at the seams. I wonder if they realize how stupid it was to pander to the lunatic fringe? Reply

+18

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Nov 2, 09 8:57 AM CST

and look how giddy you are today! See any parallels,,,,

-8

IN RESPONSE:

tomodachi
Nov 2, 09 9:13 AM CST

any "giddiness" you read into my post is expressly yours. I was merely pointing out the irony. Fact is: I despise the way republican AND democrat politicians are ruining the US. Show me the button that ends the 2 party system... I'll push it right now.

+11

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Nov 2, 09 12:16 PM CST

i would push it as well, indeed

IN RESPONSE:

ronimaca
Nov 2, 09 3:57 PM CST

not a clue. Will the unwashed masses of the GOP soon figure out the conservatives just want your vote not your public display of support unless it's at a pig farm or a bowling alley or Nascar races. Don't think you're going to the big bash balls, fund rising rallies you wont get in the door. It will be a "thanks for the use, don't touch me"

| 0 minutes ago

Doctor_Zaius
Nov 2, 09 8:47 AM CST

Well, I'm sure this will work out well for them. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

dontlikeyou
Nov 2, 09 10:03 AM CST

No doubt, it will. The liberals must be purged from the GOP if the GOP is to remain a viable party. Otherwise, we will have two liberal parties.... perfect for those who don't like freedom but hell to those of us who do.

-13

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Nov 2, 09 10:16 AM CST

I was being sarcastic, obviously you don't get nuance. Poe's law- much thanks to Dark Francis for turning me on to it. It's so true.

| 0 minutes ago

Netstorm2k9
Nov 2, 09 8:48 AM CST

I love it. The GOP has woken a sleeping giant. This is how the Whig party came about. Let's see BOTH parties disintegrate into something more representative of a democracy. I always find it interesting that many of the other democracies have a lot more than two major parties. So should we. It would liven the debate, and draw more of the citizenry into activity protecting their democracy. Reply

+13

IN RESPONSE:

shonangreg
Nov 2, 09 8:55 AM CST

We liberals need to carve out another party ourselves from the Democrat Party. We can then bargain with Republicans to both pull out of the two party system simultaneously. We could conspire to make at least a four-party system. ............................ Who else is going to do it if we don't? There are few leaders who would promote changing the current system. Such would have to come from the grassroots.

+15

IN RESPONSE:

Thinker
Nov 2, 09 9:31 AM CST

shonangreg, I completely agree. The representatives we vote for with a 4 party system will have to reflect the voters' makeup though, for it to be successfully democratic. In other words, we need representatives that reflect the makeup of the country, NOT a winner-take-all system.

+13

IN RESPONSE:

my-name-here
Nov 2, 09 9:45 AM CST

@netstorm, Right. An additional advantage to several parties is that it would further marginalize the extremes, and force the moderates of all parties to work together to get anything done. The whack-jobs would find themselves with far less power and audience than they do now.

IN RESPONSE:

EileenRocks
Nov 2, 09 9:56 AM CST

The last line there works just as well for the Progressive Grassroots. We don't care for the Dems, either, except for so long as they push our agenda, and only that far.

IN RESPONSE:

Unaffiliated
Nov 2, 09 10:09 AM CST

The Whigs are already mounting a comeback.

IN RESPONSE:

drlarrymitchell
Nov 2, 09 10:59 AM CST

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." I predicted this split between crazy and stupid prior to the 2008 election, but I thought it would take another election cycle or two. The Right wing has really been proactive about seeking their own electoral demise, and I applaud them for it.

IN RESPONSE:

Netstorm2k9
Nov 2, 09 11:15 AM CST

@ Unaffiliated, by Whig I meant Modern Whig, not Jacksonian Era Whig. Just clarifying.

IN RESPONSE:

johntitor
Nov 2, 09 11:23 AM CST

HAHAHA this is great. Please explain. Where would these four parties stand? We could have,strongly for abortion, kinda for abortion, don't care (the apathy party), and against abortion. Or maybe strongly for gay marriage, kinda for gay marriage, dont care (damn apathetics), and against gay marriage. OK lets try this one more time. We are a ONE party system. You're all fairly conservative. (look at Europe if you want a better idea) If public opinion dictated overall policy then we would be a democracy, however as the constitution is (supposed) the final word, we are a republic with democratic options. Political scientists view the real political spectrum as <---monarchy, oligarchy, republic, democracy, anarchy-----> What a great thread lol

IN RESPONSE:

shonangreg
Nov 2, 09 9:26 PM CST

How about: foxes, elephants, donkeys, and greens? ........................ The foxes are the birthers, the birchers, the Christian fundamentalists, the white supremacists, FOX News fans, and *some* libertarians. ........................ The elephants are the socially-moderate, fiscally conservative-to-moderate Republicans. ........................ The donkeys are the socially-moderate-to-liberal, fiscally moderate Democrats. ........................ The greens are socially-liberal, progressives. The environmentalists and the socialists. ........................ ........................ The donkeys and the elephants would be able to work together on many projects, but there would be more of an alliance between the greens and the elephants than there would be between the elephants and the foxes. The extreme right has been misbehaving recently much more than has the extreme left.

IN RESPONSE:

Snarfeh
Nov 3, 09 12:09 AM CST

@greg - I like it. I hope I live to see something similar come out of our government. I've felt since high school that neither party truly represented me. I'm not exactly sure which of your fictitious parties I'd fall into, but I like the concept.

IN RESPONSE:

shonangreg
Nov 3, 09 5:01 AM CST

Oops. I got my analogy a little wrong at the end. The greens could form more partnerships with the DONKEYS than the foxes could with the elephants. That is because the foxes are so confidant and self-righteous that they will refuse to compromise . . . at least for a while. Eventually the foxes will shift loyalties and transform again; I don't know to what . . . I do see that the foxes are an unholy alliance, one that repeatedly, predictably exaggerates and and always changes the topic when clear issues are approached. Ultimately they have no future.

IN RESPONSE:

bewilderbeast
Nov 3, 09 7:27 AM CST

@Shonan, the elephants leg would soon slide under the men's toilet cubicle divider and the donkey would respond lustfully and they'd be off ballsing each other joyfully at a bash sponsored by Goldman Sachs in no time. We have to end the corporate crookery; The political parties are just fronts.

| 0 minutes ago

JoeQ
Nov 2, 09 8:49 AM CST

The GOP base has eroded badly. Too bad. They can't be the autocrats they want to be any more. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

BlueAyez
Nov 2, 09 2:27 PM CST

Now they can be the bullying tyrants they want to be.

| 0 minutes ago

polstroad
Nov 2, 09 8:57 AM CST

Odd that the conservatives are able to do this to the GOP, something the Democrats could not on their own accomplish. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

shonangreg
Nov 2, 09 9:07 AM CST

Glenn Beck is the Manchurian Candidate ;-)

+15

IN RESPONSE:

ronimaca
Nov 2, 09 9:35 AM CST

why should they. All you have to do is wait awhile and the GOP will do it for you. And they can't blame the Democrats. It is a win win for the Democrats their hands are clean and they get the jobs done.

IN RESPONSE:

polytricks
Nov 2, 09 10:46 AM CST

@ronimaca - To what "jobs" are you referring that the Democrats get done? I don't think any true, blue Democrat would ever want his or her hands clean when it comes to defeating his or her opponents (the Republicans).

-1

IN RESPONSE:

polytricks
Nov 2, 09 11:14 AM CST

Sorry for the confusion - I didn't mean it as something only a Democrat would do. If you were a Democrat, representing Democratic interests, why would you want your hands "clean" of potential Republican defeat? Wouldn't your defeating a Republican be a good thing? And if you were a Republican, representing Republican interests, why would you want your hands "clean" of a Democratic defeat? I meant to point out that ronimaca's comment didn't make sense.

IN RESPONSE:

ronimaca
Nov 2, 09 4:01 PM CST

polytricks the jobs they were send to dc to do. The American peoples ' will

| 0 minutes ago

Circusdog
Nov 2, 09 9:05 AM CST

Gee I have to go to work...get my kids to school...feed the dog. I don't have time to protest which asshole is more conservative than another asshole. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Snarfeh
Nov 2, 09 9:23 AM CST

Well, if you're late, it's because you stopped to comment needlessly.

+10

| 0 minutes ago

LovinLife
Nov 2, 09 9:16 AM CST

Hybrid has a point - I'm not ready to celebrate this because I think we need a strong opposition party. I'm fairly certain that President Obama believes in a strong opposition party, too. You really can't get the best ideas in a vaccuum. I hope that eventually, we end up with a faction that believes in fiscal responsibility and conservatism - as well as limits on government; but can demonstrate compassion for all Americans and is willing to embrace regulation given what so many years of de-regulation did to our country. Balance is good - does anyone know where I can buy some? Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Nov 2, 09 9:51 AM CST

I agree with that. I don't think we'll see it unless we start treating corporations and money the way we should - not as citizens. Corporations and currency are not living things, and we shouldn't treat them as though they talk.

IN RESPONSE:

Face-Of-RNC
Nov 2, 09 10:00 AM CST

low bred's only point is at the top of his hat rack. Aren't you reading about the bills that are passing in congress theses days? The fruit of ideas kept at bay by the conservatives, while they held power. Tobacco regulated as a drug, scaling back moutain top removal by coal companies, equal rights and pay for women in the work place, reducing pork barrel defense spending. Reducing corporate power to manipulate the economy. Please don't tell me the two party system isn't working. I see a lot of good work being done.

IN RESPONSE:

LovinLife
Nov 2, 09 10:35 AM CST

Good point, Face. It does work when the ideas brought forth from both sides are considered with an open mind and an assumed respect for the best intentions behind them. Fondue - Corporations are not citizens - what a fabulous concept! Woohoo!!

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Nov 2, 09 11:40 AM CST

Face of rnc,,,,,keep your pointed hat talk on topic, and based on some kind of fact! You just cant wait to inject some race into every comment,,,whose the racist now? ass

-3

IN RESPONSE:

Face-Of-RNC
Nov 2, 09 12:36 PM CST

I calls 'em like I sees 'em lo-bred. Sorry if it stings.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Nov 2, 09 2:27 PM CST

There was race injected in Face's comment? Where?

IN RESPONSE:

bewilderbeast
Nov 3, 09 7:40 AM CST

Man, would you all LISTEN TO FONDUE!?! Corporations are not people!! They should NOT be "legal personae". Let's get this done. BARACK, WHERE ARE YOU?! Let every person behind every corporation stand personally responsible for all his and its' actions. Clean up the world now!! Whoo hoo, I feel activism starting! ---------------- please . . . .

| 0 minutes ago

ronimaca
Nov 2, 09 9:30 AM CST

now the fun beings, get a front row seat for the Conservatives eating their own. Plenty of GOP growl for all. The GOP will be destroyed from within. Happy happy joy joy. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

dontlikeyou
Nov 2, 09 10:12 AM CST

Conservatives are basically freedom minded individualists who don't like the anti-freedom turn that the GOP took under GWB and which continues today. You won't see such a revolution among liberals because liberals are comfortable with tyrannical leaders and the state being in control. Liberals are happy with both parties, in effect.

-8

IN RESPONSE:

emptycalm
Nov 2, 09 11:30 AM CST

Conservatives are for freedom of their group, not the people they exploit. Those are the fundamentals of our country. Freedom for the land owners. You want to go back to that? Your description of liberals is quite accurate though. They will let things slide for the sake of an artificial peace. Can't say I think it's a great idea but I think yr both insane.

| 0 minutes ago

Fondue
Nov 2, 09 9:44 AM CST

I have been trying to find what it is exactly conservatives are against and why. I know the umbrella answer of "big gov", but what specifically would they like to see go away and why. And I do not want to hear about bureaucracy that isn't in place such as the public option. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

dontlikeyou
Nov 2, 09 10:14 AM CST

As a liberal, you would not understand what conservatives are for or against. You may think you do, but you really don't understand the meaning of "Freedom" itself. It would be like me speaking French to a person who speaks only Russian. You might protest that it makes no sense but that is only because we speak two different languages. Here's a tip.... learn French.

-9

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Nov 2, 09 10:17 AM CST

Drink deep from that Kool-Aid DLY.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Nov 2, 09 10:21 AM CST

DLY, I am a very intelligent person. Give me a try.

IN RESPONSE:

shonangreg
Nov 2, 09 10:22 AM CST

Dontlikeyou, you are not even able to express your basic views. Freedom of..., freedom to..., freedom from...? What? What? What? Do you have no vocabulary, man?

+10

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polytricks
Nov 2, 09 10:52 AM CST

I think the mistake that most people make is assuming there is a strict, top-down platform when it comes to politics. As a result, I'm not sure anyone can accurately answer what conservatives are for and why. However, regarding what they're against, there's the obvious (Democrats), but the people who are shaking things up also are against some Republicans. They don't like the huge amount of spending that is going on today, but I think they hated the equally huge amount that went on between 2001 and 2009 (warfare and welfare). They don't like the fact that certain organizations and businesses get a leg up from the feds (during both the Bush and Obama admins) just because a whole bunch of people made errors at the same time. I think opposition to these two things is constant among most of those individuals.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Nov 2, 09 11:25 AM CST

Well, what I have found is that conservatives are for "small gov" and the "return to core values" of the Constitution. And what I am asking is how would conservatives accomplish this. If they are against the huge spending, are they "for" cutting the DoD budget? Or, are they just against social programs that help fellow Americans?

IN RESPONSE:

johntitor
Nov 2, 09 11:40 AM CST

Polytricks is spot on. I was raised republican but have come to realize those who call themselves conservative are often not. I cant tell you what republicans want. (I dont think most know) I can tell you that the people causing a stir here want less spending, less government, and much less force. Thats the key here to many of these people; an overall fear of the unavoidable "police state." Aldous Huxley called it truth drowned my a million semi-truths I believe. We dont like the Military Industrial complex, same as you. We don't like cops in our face for no reason. (happening ALOT more frequently) We don't want to government to have control of everything and we certainly don't want the government to give control to corporations. (Pretty much what we have now no?) Funny thing is many 'liberals' aren't really that liberal (Hows about no inheritance?) Its just shows that boundaries of the labels we ignorantly give ourselves (conservative, liberal) go much further than we ever see.

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Nov 2, 09 11:56 AM CST

@fondue,,,as for being strict constitutionist it would then be assumed that the buget for the dod would remain the same, I was rereading the pre emble to the constitution to gain some prepective the other day and was amazed by how it difined the rights of every man. Could be more to the lefts point of view but so be it......here it is....We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

-2

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Nov 2, 09 12:57 PM CST

@John, your statement "we don't want gov. control over everything..." Do you mean at all, or are there some things such as abortion and economic markets that the gov should control to protect citizens?

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Nov 2, 09 1:09 PM CST

@hybrid, on the DoD; should it remain static at $600+Billion, or shrink? Are strict constitutionalists the ones that interpret the document literally?

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Nov 2, 09 1:50 PM CST

i would guess that it would over time shrink as they are isolationist. I dont mind a strong defence, to participate in a global eco you need it,,,quote from the movie godfather " finance is gun,,politics is knowing when to pull pull the trigger.

IN RESPONSE:

johntitor
Nov 2, 09 2:32 PM CST

@Fondue absolutely! You have to have some oversight (gov.) to ensure a working society. Absence of any gov. is anarchy, which is a great tool, but a terrible way to run a society. Too much time is spent protecting (property, life) for any growth to take place. At the same time too much government has just as many harms. (loss of innovation springs to mind) Im not saying get rid of government, im saying view it with corruption and the potential for corruption at all times. Alot of these younger libertarian (this acrticle) values are coming from this. (myself included) Honestly I think we need a different paradigm for the abortion question, I dont believe gov. should dictate morality, that's society's job. (nor religion as religion falls within society not the other way around lol)

IN RESPONSE:

dontlikenobody
Nov 2, 09 10:46 PM CST

Johntitor, when the hell did you start making sense? Keep it up, there's hope for you yet.

IN RESPONSE:

johntitor
Nov 3, 09 12:18 PM CST

Ive been making sense the whole time, we just had a minor tiff about gun control if I remember. Thanks though!

| 0 minutes ago

polytricks
Nov 2, 09 10:59 AM CST

I don't understand what the problem is. A group of individuals feel they are no longer being represented by the political party of their choice (4-party system sounds great, but the Dems and Repubs made that impossible after '92 by changing the rules after Perot garnered some votes), and as a result, they are working to elect a candidate whom they are proud to support. These individuals now have a large enough number to make an electoral difference. Wouldn't you do the exact same thing? If, towards the end of his term, President Obama shifts his policies to neo-conservatism, wouldn't you do everything in your power to make sure he does not get re-elected? Passing judgment on the play-by-play strategies and changes of a political party like it's some kind of sport, is pointless. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

doingtherightthing
Nov 2, 09 11:08 AM CST

"my people the teabaggers". Reality check trolls. Its not moving away from the republican party, its having the republican party move back to the right where it belongs...... Scozzafava doesn't fit she's a liberal with democrat principles. Throwing out the bad seed and replacing them with consertative principles is a good thing...... Once again, you liberal trolls have it all wrong. God and country will start its comback beginning Nov 3rd, 2009. Hide'n'watch trolls; this is the beginning of your end! Reply

-8

IN RESPONSE:

emptycalm
Nov 2, 09 11:33 AM CST

This country was not founded on "God" no matter how much you want it to be. How about looking at historical truth and not what you want it to be. You're trying to turn this into the christian Iran. A religious, nationalistic country.

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Nov 2, 09 12:08 PM CST

@empty calm Do you know what the national motto is? The word "God" appears in the preamble in eight state constitutions. In four states, the "Supreme Ruler of the Universe" is used instead. By far, the most popular divine reference in a preamble is "Almighty God." This appears in the preamble of 30 state constitutions. In some states, there is no preamble. In these cases, a divine reference can be found in the religion clauses in the bill of rights. There is only one state constitution which has a preamble that does not have a divine reference of any kind. This is the Constitution of Oregon. But here the words "Almighty God" appear in the state religion clauses.

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Nov 2, 09 12:13 PM CST

The constitution is not the history of the founding of the United states.Read some US history and you'll find: The civil government instituted on the Mayflower was on a Christian basis, The system of education in New England colonies was based on Christianity. State constitutions from PA, to Georgia were based on Christian principles The continental congress wrote Christian legislation, and all judges in that day were Christian and wrote illustriously of the virtues of the Christian religion and the morality of the Bible both in public and private lives. Our history is being re-written to edit out God and our Christian heritage, so it's difficult to find data but here it is! I fully recommend serious reading from the following text if you have any doubts about it: Source "The Christian Life and Character" of the civil institutions of the United States by Benjamin F. Morris

IN RESPONSE:

Face-Of-RNC
Nov 2, 09 12:42 PM CST

None of your rant means a thing lo-bred. If we had to do things now like people did them two centuries ago we'd still be burning witches at the stake. We've discovered that bleeding the sick makes them worse, and we've discovered that without government to back it up, religion is just an opinion.

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Nov 2, 09 1:08 PM CST

@face of birthcontrol This conv had nothing to do with how religion acted but how the founders used it in the creation of the gov you and i are beholdent to. To you i say without the faith of the founders the governence of man is an opinion held by the few. I think your rants have placed you in the most dangerous of catogories, UNeducated UNinform and MISdirected. With your logic it would be prudent to toss out the use of irragation, seeing as though we used it in the 1600s in this country. Aww hell lets just shit in the streets.

-1

IN RESPONSE:

emptycalm
Nov 2, 09 1:08 PM CST

That still doesn't tell me that this country is founded on and should live according to the principles of christianity. Maybe you want to live in a christian iran, but the rest of us with sanity do not.

IN RESPONSE:

Face-Of-RNC
Nov 2, 09 1:29 PM CST

I do want lo-bred's opinion to be respected, as long as it doesn't result in the dis-respect of the opinions of others. We are a nation of many religious beliefs. All must be respected, and none must hold sway over the affairs of any except those who choose to follow a certain doctrine. Don't give me this christian nation crap. Open your eyes and realize what America looks like today!

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Nov 2, 09 3:04 PM CST

this country was founded! I did not say it is! you are so quick to disagree that you dont even read the comment. "result in the dis-respect of the opinions of others", lucky for you this country allows for this,

-1

| 0 minutes ago

hybrid
Nov 2, 09 1:16 PM CST

i was just pointing out the FACT that this country has had its past shaped by christian principles. Not by force but by choice that had continued for two hundred plus years. If you dont want to have faith, dont if you do, fine. Your of no concern to me, i live my way you live yours, you know the way it should be. Reply

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Face-Of-RNC
Nov 2, 09 1:37 PM CST

You have no knowledge of what I know. But I'll let you in on the secret. If you want me to leave you in peace, you should be willing to do the same. Just because something is not Christian doesn't automatically mean it's the 'debil'. Unless of course you want to believe it is, so long as you don't try to pass a law requiring me to believe it too. And defecating in the street is your idea sir, not this atheists'.

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Nov 2, 09 2:04 PM CST

not once did i ask you to be a "believer". Its you who cant graspe that this country was built on principles that hail from a book. If your a TRUE atheists then it should not matter to you at all if this nation has the word God in its National motto, I would think you would be laughing. Stop trying to put words in my mouth, I DONT care what you do, and just because something is Christian doesnt automatically mean it is moronic. Your belief that an amino acid that was smashed by a comet thus springing up a two celled organism into witch gave us man is considered Debil as well.

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Nov 2, 09 3:04 PM CST

Read the treaty of Tripoli http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli Here's a quote - "Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." - And it was approved by the Senate unanimously in 1797 when the people who wrote the constitution were still alive.

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Nov 2, 09 4:01 PM CST

@dr. The treaty of Tripoli remained on the books for eight years, at which time the treaty was renegotiated, and Article 11 was dropped.

IN RESPONSE:

lindamae
Nov 3, 09 12:54 AM CST

You mean Judeo-Christian principles. Remember the Old Testament is part of Christianity. I have no qualms stating that this is what kind of country we are. It is our history - religious persecution caused many to come here. It continues today when many Moslems come her to enjoy the freedoms we have. That is why I will never agree to Sharia law being accepted. One who emigrates leaves to immigrate and is expected to become part of the new country's culture. Religion should be practiced at home. I am not offended by anyone practicing their faith. At home and in their houses of worship. That is the freedom America has that has attracted millions to come here.

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Nov 3, 09 5:44 AM CST

So what? They all changed their minds? The point is that the senate (composed of people who actually wrote the constitution and understood it) unanimously ratified a document that flat out states that the US is not a Christian nation, never was a Christian nation and never will be a Christian nation. Hope that clears things up for you but my guess is you will plug your ears and scream LALALALA I can't hear you.

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Nov 3, 09 7:11 AM CST

@ DR. not true i read the treaty and many opinons on it. The use of article 11 was to convince them we wouldnt wage a religous war agianst them and after the situation calmed down it was dropped. I dont doubt that the gov should be seprate from religion but it doesnt change the fact that our nation was founded based on christian principals

| 0 minutes ago

jay08701
Nov 2, 09 2:06 PM CST

Without core principles this country will slide into eventual complete moral chaos & eventual destruction. With twisted and selfish sexual desires becoming widespread, the result will be a slow degradation of the American will and strength. Reply

-2

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Nov 2, 09 3:00 PM CST

Sounds like one of my college parties

IN RESPONSE:

hybrid
Nov 2, 09 3:43 PM CST

ahhh selfish sexual desires your right DR> college parties were the best part of degradatioin

IN RESPONSE:

Face-Of-RNC
Nov 2, 09 4:11 PM CST

Jay- thank you for your re-spouting of christian dogma. I'm not impressed. Every politician, educator, televagelist and whatever else that has been caught cheating on his wife or swiping company funds got to his high position spouting the same drivel.

| 0 minutes ago

commonsenseamerica
Nov 2, 09 5:36 PM CST

But if we all listen to the media, the "center" doesn't exist! They want us all to vote on abortion and gun control--I believe there's tons more issues that affect our daily lives. Bravo, Face-of-RNC for some clear thinking; it's too bad politicians are all clouded by $$$. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Spudsy
Nov 2, 09 5:49 PM CST

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

yummines
Nov 2, 09 10:01 PM CST

oh so there are smart conservatives! see i knew it, there are some that are at least smart enough to know that the GOP is declining rapidly and it may result in a Federalist - Whig party switch again. (as in a party no longer exists and another party replaces it). I have no problem with conservatives, but i do when they start to follow people like Beck and Rush just because they are in the same party. People need to think for themselves, and this is a good sign of it. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

lindamae
Nov 3, 09 12:48 AM CST

NO! I'm not against the GOP - even though I've been a member of the Democratic party for @ 40 years even thoug it is now being run by clueless idiots. I believe that it is ignorant to keep spending money you don't have and you need to borrow at high interest rates that will condemn our babies to pay for it all of their lives. That is common sense - not party affiliation. I am also against Card Check - which actually steals the right of a secret ballot from the voter. DeeDee supported this and I don't care what she called herself - her position on card check was enough for me to call her a Trojan Horse - not a Republican. , and not a Democrat I could respect. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Face-Of-RNC
Nov 3, 09 8:48 AM CST

Card check will end the union busting tactics of employers who intimidate workers during the election process. I've been there and know what I'm talking about. Any worker who doesn't want his card checked doasn't have to fill a card out. In the mean time this law will prevent decades of anti-labor practices by corporations.

| 0 minutes ago

MrsK
Nov 3, 09 6:59 AM CST

You can thank your nobama for the conservative pushback. We've been disorganized for years. That is changing very fast, but only at a pace that will stop your thug administration from turning this country into a Stalinist hellhole. Bye-bye commmies, Reply

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Face-Of-RNC
Nov 3, 09 8:50 AM CST

I'm thankful that you have something to thank your president for.

| 0 minutes ago

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