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SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 2009

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the big plan

Beck Will Host Conventions
to Educate America

He's shifting toward political organizer, plans big DC rally

Nov 21, 09 5:06 PM CST
Senate Democrats Clear
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Reid gets 60 votes to open full debate after Thanksgiving recess

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Matt Taibbi

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Pick an asshole, any asshole, and she'll rock the house

5 hours, 3 minutes ago
Palin Pulls in Big Bucks
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'Going Rogue' boosts Dem fundraising to new high

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demagogue alert

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HE'S GOT A BOOK OUT, TOO

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Righty pundit OK with destroying Dems and GOP

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NO COMMUNION FOR YOU, MY SON

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|NEXT STORY »

MEGHAN MCCAIN

Lieberman's Name Ain't Benedict

We need more pols who cross party lines, says maverick junior

By Kevin Spak| Posted Nov 2, 09 1:54 PM CST|

(Newser) – Joe Lieberman’s taking a lot of heat for saying he’ll join a GOP filibuster of the health care bill, but Meghan McCain thinks it’s the kind of courageous stand we need more of in politics. “It’s no secret I have an aversion to partisan politics and extremism—on both sides of the aisle,” she writes for the Daily Beast, citing moderate stalwarts Lieberman and Lindsey Graham as her favorite senators.

Recently there’s been worry over “moderate bloodletting” in the GOP, but Lieberman’s treatment proves liberals can let blood with the best of them. “God forbid any politician from either side dares reach across party lines and refuses to placate the partisan faithful.” It’s easy to preach to the converted. “If I want to hear conservative dogma, I will turn on Fox. But where do people go to listen to the Joe Liebermans of the world?”

[Images (1)]

[Quotes (1)]

In this photo provided by CBS, Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., speaks after appearing on CBS's "Face the Nation" in Washington, Sunday, Nov. 1, 2009. (AP Photo/CBS Face the Nation, Karin Cooper)

View larger images >>

« Prev« Prev | Next »Next » Slideshow

The older generation needs to understand that my generation does not respond well to anger, hate, and personal attacks. - Meghan McCain

« Prev« Prev | Next »Next » Slideshow

11.20.09

The Health-Care Wars Have Just Begun

11.19.09

Sarah Palin Deserves Some More Attention

50 comments

VIEWING:

dontlikeyou
Nov 2, 09 1:54 PM CST

Leiberman is a good and decent man. Reply

-19

IN RESPONSE:

LovinLife
Nov 2, 09 2:49 PM CST

was...long time ago.

IN RESPONSE:

alkaseltzersammich
Nov 2, 09 3:10 PM CST

Leiberman and his wife openly receive vast political donations from the the largest of the health insurance companies. Oh, but of course this doesn't alter his views health care for all Americans. What a great guy, let me tell you.

+16

IN RESPONSE:

cedarkey
Nov 2, 09 7:02 PM CST

Dems have been mad at Leiberman ever since he was the first dem Senator to say what Bill Clinton did with Monica was wrong. Two years later Leiberman challenged Maxine " The Welfare Queen" Waters stating his opposition to affirmative action. Of course, maxine had a cow. And another, and another, and another.

-7

IN RESPONSE:

LovinLife
Nov 2, 09 7:15 PM CST

If you seriously believe that most dems didn't strongly admonish Clinton's affair, you were either not paying attention or you should really have your medical team re-evaluate your meds.

| 0 minutes ago

Unaffiliated
Nov 2, 09 1:55 PM CST

I don't like her, but she's got a point. Reply

-7

IN RESPONSE:

AnnieOkie58
Nov 2, 09 3:27 PM CST

pointed head...lol

IN RESPONSE:

ljm
Nov 2, 09 3:27 PM CST

Well, not really. No one is asking Lieberman to vote FOR the public option. The only thing the caucus is asking is that he support cloture and let there be a vote. He is free to vote against Health Care. This is a procedural vote and the Dems need to support the party. Then, if conscience dictates, vote against final passage.

| 0 minutes ago

Netstorm2k9
Nov 2, 09 1:59 PM CST

Yah, Meghan McCain is the voice of wisdom. ::rolls eyes right into the street. Reply

+17

IN RESPONSE:

citygirl
Nov 2, 09 2:02 PM CST

have to agree with that. She is pretty repulsive, but nevertheless...

IN RESPONSE:

schmidtkoff
Nov 3, 09 10:42 AM CST

and who's her daddy?

| 0 minutes ago

citygirl
Nov 2, 09 2:01 PM CST

Would be great to have more independent, free of "party line" bs, elected officials. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

tomodachi
Nov 2, 09 2:20 PM CST

The first step: Disconnect them from the lobbyists. Step Two: Make it so they can be job-failed by the taxpayers if they collectively feel a congress member isn't working for the tax payers.

IN RESPONSE:

jamerican
Nov 2, 09 2:50 PM CST

I agree that more politicians should vote what is best for the country and not just have to follow party lines like a bunch of stupid sheep. We need a way to get them out of office quickly if we feel that they are not doing their job. Again quit reelecting them just because they have done a half ass job and quit voting for attorneys who are liars and want to be lifetime politicians.

-3

IN RESPONSE:

citygirl
Nov 2, 09 4:43 PM CST

Yep, remove the lobbying blood suckers

| 0 minutes ago

BlueAyez
Nov 2, 09 2:03 PM CST

The message is lost because it's source is someone who's never been a politician. It sounds good academically but would it really be good for the nation? Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Thinker
Nov 2, 09 2:14 PM CST

Exactly. What's the point of having an election if the candidates will potentially flipflop on anything and everything? I want to know where my choice stands on issues, and I want to know I can depend on him or her to keep promises. LIEberman is a publicity hog and in the pocket of big business. He has ignored his own promises and ideals, and the voters who elected him must be completely bewildered.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Nov 2, 09 2:22 PM CST

I think you meant: what's the point in having political parties if the candidates will potentially flip flop. What we should be demanding is a system that opens up the decision making to the citizens via the internet. E-democracy is long overdue in a world with such widespread use and availability of communication.

IN RESPONSE:

Unaffiliated
Nov 2, 09 2:39 PM CST

Fondue, a bunch of e-democracy questions, some completely ridiculous: Will we have an online referendum for every major policy? How do we ensure EVERYONE gets a say, including those without internet access? How do we ensure everyone only votes once? Will we need virtual voter cards? A national registry of internet users? Will we ammend the Bill of Rights to include "the right to internet access"? What if your ISP wants YOU to vote Republican and so it blocks access to left-leaning websites? Will Michael Wolffe do a celebration dance on the graves of the Old Media hoping this would effectively end TV campaign ads? Will the government create a Facebook page (with a Facebook login becoming the de facto virtual voter card), where people can suggest policies and whichever gets the most thumbs up gets implemented?

IN RESPONSE:

Wonka
Nov 2, 09 2:40 PM CST

@Fondue - That's a scary proposal you have. Outright democracy? I think the founders wanted to avoid that because they feared mob rule would result from a democracy. Plus, you've seen the idiots that have access to the internet (many of them frequent this site). Do you really want them to have decision making powers? I understand you're frustration but your solution is potentially worse.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Nov 2, 09 2:50 PM CST

@ Unaffiliated, I want to randomly answer yes to those questions. Search for "Beyond Plutocracy" for what was my first encounter with the idea. @ Wonka, I think it is possible. Look into the aforementioned online book. There is a detailed description of how it could potentially work.

IN RESPONSE:

kokuaguy
Nov 2, 09 3:22 PM CST

As much sympathy as I have for your point of view, BlueAyez, I feel compelled to say that this post would have been more effective without the punctuation error for which Lynne Truss would have you "struck by lightning, hacked up on the spot and buried in an unmarked grave." ; ^)

IN RESPONSE:

RogerMohajir
Nov 2, 09 3:53 PM CST

@Fondue: The Demos approach founders on the very same shoals that internet voting and voting by mail do: it allows and encourages individuals to vote publicly in private as opposed to our current system which provides a private vote in public. Under Demos and other such systems, an abusive spouse can simply hover while his victim logs in (with every kind of security you can imagine) and then watch her/him vote as instructed. Old-fashioned ward bosses can ensure loyalty by having people vote in front of them, again with all the technology in the world to ensure their id. Whatever safeguard you can come up with to prevent this can be circumvented by the fact that the voter WANTS (out of fear, greed, etc.) to vote the way s/he is instructed. Not a good system, in my view. The secret ballot (in a public place), however, allows people to say they are voting one way and then vote another. I know from victims of domestic violence that the secret ballot was one of the few ways they felt able to defy their abusers.

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Nov 2, 09 4:15 PM CST

@ Roger, I never thought of it that way. There has to be some way we can become more involved than just who gets to go pretend to care. Will more party choices solve it? I don't believe it will. We have got to have more say than we do.

IN RESPONSE:

RogerMohajir
Nov 2, 09 5:46 PM CST

@Fondue: I agree that fundamental change is needed. One promising idea, that seems counter-intuitive at first, is to greatly increase the numbers in the House of Representatives. The current number of 435 is not in the constitution -- it was set back in the 20s so party bosses could control their members. With communication advances, Congress doesn't need to meet in a room anymore, so there is no physical limit to its size. If we raised the number to 2,000 members, for example, there would be one representative for every 150,000 people, meaning Congressional elections could again be won by going door-to-door, instead of requiring millions of dollars raised from special interests for media buys. That's one thought...

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Nov 2, 09 6:09 PM CST

@ Roger, have seen this about the House of Representatives? http://www.thirty-thousand.org/

IN RESPONSE:

Fondue
Nov 2, 09 6:11 PM CST

Also, back to spouses forcing the other to vote a certain way. I was thinking, how often would that happen? And, would there be legislation making it a felony?

IN RESPONSE:

RogerMohajir
Nov 2, 09 7:15 PM CST

@Fondue: Yes, I am aware of thirty-thousand.org. I think they are too obsessed with getting one representative per 50,000 but it is otherwise a good idea. I don't know how often the domestic violence scenario plays out, but it is not uncommon. Most abusive relationships involve multiple felonies (assault, for example), so it's hard to imagine that it would be much of a deterrent. In terms of the kind of numbers that can have a strong effect on an election, a greater problem is the political boss model. How do you feel about a candidate or party throwing a "voting party" where they serve alcohol, perhaps provide attractive "interns" to mingle, and then have a group vote? Just one example. If you think about it, there are many ways that private voting in public is open to abuse. The people who it is designed to accommodate (those for whom a trip to the polling place is just too much trouble) are those most likely to not value their vote and thus sell or give it away inappropriately.

| 0 minutes ago

Doctor_Zaius
Nov 2, 09 2:21 PM CST

What we don't need is a politician whose constituents favor something by 70% but who takes massive amounts of money from vested interests so he goes against his constituents. That is what we absolutely don't need. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

citygirl
Nov 2, 09 2:39 PM CST

If this is the case, his constituents will elect someone else, no?

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Nov 2, 09 2:43 PM CST

Joe is done and he knows it. This is all just one big giant bird flipping.

IN RESPONSE:

Thinker
Nov 2, 09 3:06 PM CST

Citygirl, constituents are notoriously under-read.

IN RESPONSE:

citygirl
Nov 2, 09 4:44 PM CST

Yep, I know, that's why they continue to elect corrupted morons

-2

IN RESPONSE:

lindamae
Nov 3, 09 12:32 AM CST

Ahem - where on earth did you find the 70% number? Another example of someone who takes massive amounts of money for vested interests is Obama and Dodd. Both received oodles of money from lawyers - so any wonder why we haven't seen any tort reform measures in any of the Dem. bills? It's proven to save billions - ask Texas, CA, Miss. and Alaska. Ironically, Pelosi's bill will make it illegal for states to keep their tort reform laws if her bill is passed. So, anyone who complains that Joe is in the pocket of the insurance industry needs to admit that Obama is in the pocket of the lawyers. ($43,674,254 & McCain received $11,141,721) Oh - Obama also received big bucks form Finance, Insurance and Real Estate as well. ($39,480,169 to McCain's $28,930,292) The lawyers/lobbists money was divided :Democrats 76% to 23% Republican. Health Care Professionals; 53% TO Dems and 47% to Reps. Insurance: 45% to Dems and 55% to Reps.) Opensecrets.com

| 0 minutes ago

Stasis
Nov 2, 09 2:26 PM CST

Lieberman. Classic POS.... Reply

| 0 minutes ago

dontlikenobody
Nov 2, 09 2:34 PM CST

"Lieberman's Name Ain't Benedict" Yes. It is. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

steveo47829
Nov 2, 09 2:38 PM CST

lieberman was elected as the senator of Connecticut. residents of my state (around 70%) support the public option. good luck getting reelected in 2012 Joe Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Silverbow7
Nov 2, 09 4:43 PM CST

By then he will already have the money and the damage will be done.

| 0 minutes ago

LovinLife
Nov 2, 09 2:46 PM CST

Um, Meaghan - who wants to listen to Lieberman? What he says today, he will change tomorrow...he doesn't represent the vast majority of people in his constituency despite their great need for a representative in this reform...he is obviously voting based on personal interests in this matter. Joe Lieberman is the voice of non partisanship you really want? C'mon - you're smarter than that. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Nov 2, 09 3:21 PM CST

No she isn't (smarter than that). She needs to go away somewhere and learn politics, with her family connections she could do it. Then after she's learned something I would be interested in hearing what she has to say, until then, not interested.

IN RESPONSE:

LovinLife
Nov 2, 09 3:36 PM CST

Awww, give her a shot. She's young, but she recognizes Fox for what it is and isn't intimidated by the old boys club on either side. That's gotta count for something!

-1

IN RESPONSE:

Doctor_Zaius
Nov 2, 09 3:40 PM CST

her opinion matters just as much as any young woman looking at politics from the outside. What I am saying she should do is get on the inside and learn something.

IN RESPONSE:

LovinLife
Nov 2, 09 5:43 PM CST

I'm not a fan - nor do I read her column in the Daily Beast, but every time I've heard her or read her, she appears to know about politics and has some good thoughts about the future of the GOP. She's sincere in her beliefs - even if she's a little starry eyed over Lieberman. What specifically makes you discount what she has to say? Surely it's not simply because she's too young, a woman and/or not a career politician?

| 0 minutes ago

polstroad
Nov 2, 09 3:08 PM CST

Lieberman is from my statel. He was a self-serving guy when he was more local than now. He is running, always, on money from Hazrtford, Ct insuranc e industry. and his wife is a big lolbbyist for Pharmaceutical industry. He is not a liberal by any stretch of the imagination, and he will run as Republican if he runs again for the senate. Reply

IN RESPONSE:

lindamae
Nov 3, 09 12:39 AM CST

Pharma supported both parties 50% to 50 % with their contributions in the presidential elections. Also, how many of your family and friends work in either the medical or insurance fields in CT? Wouldn't you expect their Senator to try to save their jobs? You've heard the hue and cry about moving jobs out of Ct with Pratt? You do know that if public option goes, then the government will be the broker who decided which policy you must take and how much you must pay for it and the IRS will oversee that you do? If you don't know that, then please take time to review the Baucus and Pelosi bills. At least read the table of contents in each so you can see what will happen. Also - both bills claim that there still will be those who are uninsured. So, we lose our right to decide what plan we want for nothing.

-1

| 0 minutes ago

QueenAlli
Nov 2, 09 3:23 PM CST

Oh Megan, you try so hard, but you are so so so so wrong. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Cprizzle
Nov 2, 09 3:35 PM CST

Yes. She's right that bipartisanship is good and great. HOWEVER, Lieberman is not an example of that, nor is any politician who has an office with any importance... And it's sad. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

Spudsy
Nov 2, 09 5:39 PM CST

Wait, even a McCain can see that Fox is conservative dogma? Reply

| 0 minutes ago

freethemall
Nov 2, 09 7:09 PM CST

By opposing the public option, Lieberman is NOT taking a middle, moderate course. The liberal position is that the profit motive should play no part in the delivery of health care. The compromise is a strong public option. It is not a weak public option that can be opted in and out of, and Lieberman opposes even this. Reply

| 0 minutes ago

cornelison
Nov 2, 09 7:17 PM CST

Joe Lieberman has a preexisting condition - He doesn't have a HEART! Reply

| 0 minutes ago

View all 50 comments »

Joe Lieberman • filibuster • maverick • health care reform • moderate • Meghan McCain

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Lieberman's Name Ain't Benedict

We need more pols who cross party lines, says maverick junior

[Images (1)]

[Quotes (1)]

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Lieberman's Name Ain't Benedict

We need more pols who cross party lines, says maverick junior

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McConnell:
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